There have been many different incarnations of Marvel's Thunderbolts over the years. However, a common thread that's woven amongst their iterations is the fact that the Thunderbolts team is meant to be a place where its members can better themselves. Sometimes it means becoming better criminals -- like when team founder Baron Zemo was in control, or when the Thunderbolts were under the grip of by villains like Norman Osborn. More often than not, though, the Thunderbolts are meant to be a team that offers its members redemption. That's the vision and legacy established by heroic Thunderbolts team leaders like Hawkeye, Luke Cage, and the Winter Soldier. Now, in the aftermath of Devil's Reign, New York's new Mayor, Luke Cage, looks to reestablish his former team's heroic and redemptive legacy, which was tarnished by his predecessor Wilson Fisk.

Cage's plan for the team is implemented in July's Thunderbolts #1, a kick-off to a new five-issue miniseries by writer Jim Zub and artist Sean Izaakse. CBR spoke with Zub about his Ted Lasso-inspired vision for the book, its lineup which includes fan-favorite characters like Hawkeye and Spectrum, and the unique logistic aspects that come with the Thunderbolts being New York City's sanctioned super team. Also included with this interview is an exclusive sneak peek at Izaakse and colorist Java Tartaglia's pages for Thunderbolts #1, Izaakse's cover for the Marvel series' debut issue, and Stefano Caselli's variant cover.

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CBR: You worked with Sean Izaakse on the 2016 Thunderbolts series, which featured the original team led by the Winter Soldier. How does it feel to reunite with Sean and come back to Thunderbolts?

Jim Zub: It's amazing and a bit surreal. Sean and I worked together on one of his first professional gigs, Pathfinder. He did two fill-in issues of Thunderbolts, which was my first in-continuity Marvel superhero stuff. From there we moved over to Uncanny Avengers together. Then he did an issue of Avengers: No Surrender, he was one of the primary artists on Avengers: No Road Home, and we worked on Champions together. So, we are solid. We really know each other and love working together.

I never thought I'd get a chance to write Thunderbolts again. My initial run was 12 issues and I had a ton of fun diving into the Marvel Universe with both feet, and being part of the big build-up to Secret Empire. This time it all came together pretty organically. I was talking to C.B. Cebulski about future projects and he mentioned the possibility of a team spinning out of Devil's Reign. He wasn't sure that would be the Thunderbolts, but the more we put the pieces together the more it made sense for the story. All of a sudden I’m writing Thunderbolts again. I didn’t expect that and I'm certainly not taking it for granted. I'm lucky enough to have lightning strike twice. So I want to make the most of it.

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With so many different incarnations of the Thunderbolts over the years, you can do a multitude of things with the group. How does what you're doing here compare to what you did back then?

A lot of times people will look at a cast of characters and say, "This team lineup is different so this isn't the team I want," but, it's like you said, the Thunderbolts have gone through so many iterations. There have been incarnations where they're purely criminal, others where they're criminals trying to be heroes, and everything in between, but I've always felt like, at their heart, the Thunderbolts are a team struggling for redemption. Individual members and the team as a whole struggled to dig themselves out of their worst selves or resist the natural pull of who they've been in the past. So, for me, redemption is the heart of the Thunderbolts concept.

Hawkeye was the Thunderbolts leader who took over when Zemo got pushed out by the team wanting to redeem themselves back in the Busiek and Bagley days. Not only that, but everyone on the team has their own redemptive elements I'm bringing into the mix. Wilson Fisk's Thunderbolts were a purely criminal team. They have basically deputized crooks running around New York doing what they wanted wielding the law like a weapon.

Both Luke Cage and Clint Barton have led the Thunderbolts and believe in the name. They want it redeemed and to see something better on the other side. That's their motivation for this new version of the team. On top of that, they can't just take the laws Wilson Fisk created and turn them off like a switch. The wheels of commerce and government are slow and turgid at the best of times. The Thunderbolts are on the books as a legal superhero team. They're deputized and part of the law in New York City as it stands in the post-Devil’s Reign world. So, if that's going to be the case Luke figures let's use the team but make them actual heroes instead of the Kingpin of Crime's flunkies.

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The redemption element seems especially fitting for Hawkeye given the events of the recent Hawkeye: Freefall miniseries.

Freefall informs quite a bit of what's going on here. Clint did some nasty stuff in that mini-series! He turned down a dark road and he knows it. So, he's trying to reverse course and trying to figure out who he's meant to be. There's a midlife crisis aspect to it all.

This team also has some real powerhouses in the form of Spectrum and America Chavez.

Big time! They’re both awesome. Monica and America Chavez were on the Ultimates together so they have cosmic level power and I thought, "If the Thunderbolts are meant to be New York's premier superhero team they're essentially stepping in for the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, and anyone else who would normally handle threats in the Big Apple." So, they have to be able to stand toe-to-toe with that power level as well. I needed to have some powerhouses in the mix, and it's fun to figure out how to put challenges up against them along with everyone else. I enjoy keeping people guessing about how they're going to be utilized and be most effective against the threats coming their way.

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So they add interesting character opportunities and increase the scope and scale of your story?

I love writing character and team dynamics. It's something I enjoy, and thankfully Marvel recognizes that and leans into it. I pitched this to C.B. Cebulski and Tom Brevoort as the "Avengers by way of Ted Lasso." It’s more comical with lots of character moments and heart. There's a joyous quality about these characters on their back feet struggling to overcome themselves. That's a fun way to present the team and the interplay between them.

Without spoiling too much; Clint doesn't get to choose the team lineup. It's dropped on him, and he has to make the most of it. That's not going to be easy.

This book spins out of Devil's Reign. So, I'm not surprised it features a Killgrave. I'm guessing you have an affinity for this particular member of that family though given her former membership in Canada's premier super-team, Alpha Flight. I'm of course talking about Kara Killgrave AKA Persuasion.

[laughs] It's true. Whenever I can inject a little bit of Canadian content I can't help, but do it. She’s a really good fit based on the Devil's Reign connection and all the pieces sort of came together. I think Persuasion is a neat character and her motivations for wanting to be on this team are a bit different from everyone else. She can’t hide who she is. Her nature is literally on the surface, so she can't distance herself from her lineage, but she can be better in a very public-facing way. It's better to be a celebrity than hounded and hunted.

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We've seen that there's a violating nature to the way the Killgrave family's powers work. So how does she reconcile that with being on a hero team?

In their first couple missions, Persuasion is struggling with how and where she uses her power. As you said, when she uses it she's taking control away from someone. So, how do you do that in an ethical way? If you're saving other people when does that stop?

One of the ways we dig into that is that the Thunderbolts are sanctioned New York superheroes answerable to the government and public in a way a lot of superheroes are not. Everything they do comes under an extra layer of scrutiny. There's a moment in Thunderbolts #2 where Clint has to do a press scrum. He’s used to doing photos with the Avengers and things like that, but he’s never had to deal with reporters asking actual questions and follow-up questions. These reporters have done their homework, and they hold his feet to the fire. It's a very different mode of operation for Clint and the rest of the team.

So, if Persuasion uses her powers in a way that can be misconstrued and someone posts a photograph or video online, what effect does that have? What are some of the things a public relations arm of a superhero team has to deal with, particularly when the taxpayers are footing the bill?

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This book also features a new character that you and Sean created, Gutsen Glory.

There are actually two new characters. There's one in Thunderbolts #1 and another in #2.

I love making new characters in the Marvel Universe. It's always a thrill, and as Tom Brevoort and I were putting this series together we noticed a familiar formula. We've got the big guy, the mentalist, and the energy projector. So, we thought it would be great to include the grim, loner-style character in there as well. And we thought, "What if we just turn everything up to 11? What if we make this a '90s style, ridiculous version of that trope? Can we play those old tunes with a fun, modern edge?"

So, Gutsen is the classic mystery man. What is his past? What has he done before? He's a cybernetic soldier and we're having fun with the wink and nod Cable-ness of it all. Sean's design for the character is really fun. If people respond with, "This is awesome! I know what you're going for!" That's great. If they respond, "This is really hokey!" That's also correct. [laughs] The name and all the other elements put together are meant to lampshade the ridiculousness of it.

The other character we've revealed in the solicits for Thunderbolts #2 is a classic, Kirby-esque Marvel monster who we're calling Eegro the Unbreakable. He's this pint-sized, angry, ridiculous, alien from Monster Island. In Thunderbolts #2, we reveal why he's in New York City and how he ends up getting pulled into the mix with everyone. He is a ton of fun to write.

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What else can you tell us about the logistics of your team?

The book has this Ted Lasso feel, so one of the things I'm really enjoying is all the interpersonal stuff -- like the support system that makes this team function. It's not just about the front-facing combat-ready heroes. They also have an accountant, a lawyer, and a PR specialist. The exasperated nature that comes from dealing with the personalities and logistics of a superhero team is as much fun as fighting the supervillains. Clint Barton and Monica Rambeau have assumptions about what they do and how they do it, while other people on the ground have to make this team function in a sanctioned, legal, way that hits budgetary targets. It may not sound like fun, but it's actually a hoot to play those off each other and anchor it in these ideas.

I love the regular people and secondary, support characters that make Marvel Comics so fun. It's not just about Peter Parker and Spider-Man. It's about J. Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robertson, and Betty Brant; all these characters that fill out the world and give you another point of view on the superheroic things happening all around them. The way we've been able to do that with a couple of our secondary characters has been a lot of fun.

What can you tell us about the villains the Thunderbolts face in your miniseries?

The easiest reveal for me is that in Thunderbolts #1 the new Thunderbolts have to take down the old Thunderbolts. They have to round up Wilson Fisk's crooks and make sure that they're put away. So, if you enjoyed Villains-for-Hire don't worry! Those characters don’t just vanish. There's a great confrontation with them in issue #1.

We start with Thunderbolts versus Thunderbolts and then go from there because we want the series to have more of a comedic edge. I've dug into some esoteric corners of the Marvel Universe and pulled out some really bizarre stuff. The Marvel monster angle comes into play in issue #2. Red Ghost's Super Apes makes a delightful appearance in issue #3. Then, from there, we build up in terms of scope and drama in issues #4-5. We'll introduce a more Avengers or Fantastic Four-level threat and look at what it takes for the Thunderbolts to tackle them. We test the team and push their limits.

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You talked about your past collaborations with Sean and your history with team books. So, it seems like Thunderbolts is primed to be a book that's fun for both of you and taps into your collective strengths.

Yeah, big time! The storytelling I'm asking for has some quiet, poignant moments and expressive interactions. Sean is amazing at that, but doesn't hold back on the action either! This is going to sound a bit dramatic but I'm totally serious when I say that I think Thunderbolts #1 might be the best superhero script I've written so far in terms of delivering everything I love about Marvel Comics. It's got humor, heart, tons of action, and everyone gets a moment to shine.

If you haven't read Devil's Reign or kept up with these characters it's easy to jump in and figure out what everyone's paradigm is and how they work. We set up a lot of momentum for the future. I'm really proud of the issue, and Sean is knocking it out of the park in terms of the artwork. I think people will get a real strong feeling of what we're going for and hopefully join us for the whole ride because it's going to be a wild one.

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You mentioned the future. So, if people show up, do you and Sean have plans for more stories beyond this initial mini-series?

Absolutely! Many people associate the Thunderbolts with the original team lineup and have had questions like, "What about Songbird, Moonstone, or Baron Zemo?" I've got ideas about those characters for the future and ideas for where the team goes from here, so keep an eye out for that. I'd love to keep the momentum going and keep telling stories with the Thunderbolts because it's been so much fun to work on!

I love writing books with these dynamics and team building. Writing A-List heroes is great, but I also really enjoy taking characters who may not have been seen in a while and giving them a new spin or new motivation. That's what I love about writing in these shared universes.

So, after all this chatter, what I’m trying to say is please don't wait until Thunderbolts is in the rearview mirror. I'm really proud of the book and thrilled with what Sean and the rest of the team are delivering on every issue. Don’t wait for the trade. Jump on board now!