The following contains spoilers for The Walking Dead Season 11, Episode 21, "Outpost 22," which debuted Sunday, Oct. 30 on AMC.
The Walking Dead is one of the few adaptations out there that isn't tied down to its original source material. Storylines usually diverge from how they originally played out in the comics by Robert Kirkman, but what's most different are the character deaths -- or the lack thereof. One such example is Ezekiel, portrayed in a grandiose yet humbling manner by Khary Payton, who met his demise in Issue 144 when his head was cut off by Alpha and put on spikes along with other victims. The same scene played out in the show's ninth season, but Ezekiel was spared and continues to live on.
However, Ezekiel's fate still isn't secured. After a hard fight at the Commonwealth for better rights, Ezekiel was kidnapped by Commonwealth soldiers alongside Kelly and Negan to work in a labor camp in Season 11, Episode 21, "Outpost 22." Most would expect his hopefulness after surviving cancer in the zombie apocalypse to diminish, yet he remains as strong as ever and becomes a beacon of hope in the colorless world of The Walking Dead. In an interview with CBR, Payton spoke about how important it is for someone like Ezekiel to survive in the harsh world of the zombie series and broke down an eye-opening discussion between Negan and Ezekiel.
CBR: Thank you for speaking to CBR today.
Khary Payton: Yeah, of course. I've used your resources on many occasions.
Thank you!
I work and play in comic book [projects] enough that I can always use some reference from CBR, so there you go.
That's great. I really appreciate that. I wanted to start off by saying I'm so glad that the writers went against Ezekiel's comic book death so long ago because you bring such light and hope to the show when it can be so dark sometimes. It's great to see Ezekiel just be the person to go to when you need that sort of hope.
Yeah, even when he's been getting dealt a pretty tough hand, you like seeing him fight to get up on his feet. If you're having a hard time, you're like, "Well, Ezekiel's getting back up." He's never given up, and he doesn't seem to quite give in even when he is feeling badly. He's trying to be selfless, even when he is saying, "Leave without me," and that kind of thing. He's really starting to turn it around, even in these dark days, and always looking to help. So I'm really happy that they didn't choose to cut his head off and [to] keep him around. I've always told the writers, "I feel like you would do a disservice to everybody watching if you didn't keep that Ezekiel spirit going."
So given that, how does it feel to look back on when you started in the beginning of Season 7, all the way to where you are now in Season 11?
I feel like it's been a tough, long road, but Ezekiel keeps having these situations where he is thrown into a pit, and he's gotta climb his way out of it, you know? He's been doing a good job of climbing his way out of this pit only to be thrown back down. I feel like he's got a lot of momentum on his side. It's not going to be so hard to maybe get back up this time. He's going to keep fighting to keep everybody's spirits up. So yeah, it's been a long journey, and at least for Ezekiel, I feel like it's been satisfying.
In the past few episodes, specifically, when it comes to Ezekiel's positive outlook on the Commonwealth and his belief that the Commonwealth can be redeemed, there's this connection between Ezekiel's view of the Commonwealth and Rick. Rick had the same mindset in the comics. Was there any intention of Ezekiel taking up this part of Rick's storyline? Hopefully not his death, though.
Right? [laughs] There's been a lot of that kind of divvying up. Yumiko's kind of taken over some of Michonne's storyline, and I think that Ezekiel absolutely was taking some of Rick's outlook on resiliency. It's funny because, eventually, it's going to pay off. So many times with Rick, he was like, "You gotta believe in people and stuff." He's always believing in the wrong people, and all these people die. But, you know, he's stubborn. It's like, "Eventually, I'm going to trust the right people." The thing is, he has trusted some of the right people, but there are some assholes here that have been working their way [into] that. Ezekiel's a bit [of] the same way in that, at the end of the day, the cool thing about both Rick and Ezekiel is that they have a belief in the humanity of people to be better despite their circumstances. I think since Ezekiel wasn't able to make that journey in the comics, maybe he's taken over for Rick and making that journey now.
As you said, Ezekiel believes in the humanity of people, but you can't deny that it's being tested, especially in this episode with everything going on with the Commonwealth and with Negan, too. One moment specifically is when Ezekiel tells Negan one of the reasons he doesn't trust him is because Negan coerced women into marrying him. It's such an important moment because it was a controversial storyline. How significant was it for you for Ezekiel to be the one to finally address this issue?
I think it's a reminder that these things don't just go away with time. That when you've been abused -- either physically, mentally, or both physically and mentally -- what those things do is they break down your spirit, and your spirit doesn't forget those things. I think it was important to address because... putting irons on people's faces and beating them with a bat, those are devastating and flashy, but it's that mental freedom that is taken away that I think so many people can identify with, you know? It shows Ezekiel's leadership qualities because a true leader is always thinking of others and trying to understand other people's perspectives. That's what sticks with Ezekiel.
When it comes to Negan, these are the things that you need to reflect upon. You think about the big-time flashy stuff you've done, but it's the little things along the way. Those are the things that people need a champion [for] because those are moments that, when you're being dealt a blow all by yourself in those quiet moments, you don't have anyone else to talk to. I think, as men, we all have women in our lives that have been taken advantage of. Whether those women have told you -- specifically or not -- the truth is just we all have because it happens all the time. I think it's important to say something as a man because there are so many times that a woman is just walking down the street or minding her own business or doing whatever -- and it's just the way that life is -- and they kind of let it go and keep moving. It's important as men that we acknowledge that these things are happening because women feel seen. I think that's why it kind of struck a chord with people.
I certainly appreciated it. As a woman, I cheered for that moment because someone finally mentioned it. It happened so long ago, but people just don't forget about these types of things.
They sit there, and they wear. It's just another example of both good and bad. You don't realize the impacts you have on people's lives sometimes. You know the good things you do. So many times, people say, "It's not that big of a deal. I don't know why everybody's making such a big deal. You just got to learn to deal with it." Your perspective is important, you know?
What do you think of Ezekiel and Negan's temporary partnership in this episode? Do you think they could effectively work together, or will their past conflicts get in the way of them succeeding?
My analogy is -- it's a sports analogy -- that you have those guys on your team that do kind of the dirty work. When they're on the other team, you hate them with such passion. Then they switch jerseys, and they get traded to your team somehow, and all of a sudden, you're like, "Man, I'm glad we've got that guy on our team." Somebody needed to say somebody needed to do it. You need that guy who will do the dirty work. When you're literally covered in mud and muck, and you're looking for resources -- it's "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of thing.
The whole show is drained of color. It's all just gray and dank. You'd like to eat something full of life and green and all of that, but sometimes, all you got is this mush to get you through. I feel like Ezekiel's like, "Negan, you're the mush that I've got to eat to get through this," you know? I don't know if it's redemption that he's looking for with Negan, but it's more, "With everything you've done, I'm going to use what you have to maybe exact some change for people who deserve it."
It's funny because Negan and Ezekiel have such bad blood, and you also both arrived at the same time on the show, but it seems like you two haven't really had a lot of one-on-one scenes together.
Not a word. We haven't had one word. The closest we got to each other was when Shiva jumped on and missed Negan and landed on the Savior next to him right when he was about to beat Carl and Rick to death in Alexandria. That's the closest we've ever gotten to a conversation. So literally, it's been years of not going near each other. Jeff[rey Dean Morgan] and I have been like, "Man, this is the first time we're having any conversation." So this was a long time coming.
You can definitely tell there's tension between the two of them as if they have interacted on-screen -- just from the hatred between the two of you and Negan's desperation to get approval from Ezekiel.
It's funny to have waited so long to have that conversation because there's so much behind it. There's so much weight because we've waited so long. It was really cool, and it was cool to work with Jeff in that way because we've known each other for so long. We bonded over our kids and over fantasy football leagues and stuff like that. It was cool to finally actually have screen time on there.
To see how Ezekiel gets out of the Commonwealth's grip, watch new episodes of The Walking Dead on Sundays at 9:00 p.m. on AMC. Episodes also stream a week early on AMC+.