School's Out: A Summer's Reading List

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them." - Mark Twain

Summer is a time to live life to its fullest. It's a time to feel the sun in Florida or visit the bright blue waters of Cancun. A lot of us aren't able to treat ourselves to such luxuries and vacations, however. I do have a perfect little getaway that will only cost you a few dollars... books.

The titles that are listed below are recommendations from the finest people I know. Some of these people are my friends; some of these people have had a profound influence on me (and probably yourself, as well). But the one thing that they all share in common is that they do work that we respect and always look forward to. Based on that criteria, I've ask them to recommend titles that they've recently enjoyed reading or looking forward to encountering during the summer months.

MARK BUCKINGHAM (The marvelous artist of "Fables")"Kirby: King Of Comics" by Mark Evanier"Driving Over Lemons: An Optimist in Andulucia" by Chris Stewart"Lost Girls" by Alan Moore & Melinda Gebbie

TOM BREVOORT (Marvel Comics' mightiest Editor)"America Unchained" by Dave Gorman. More great true-life travelogue humor as Dave attempts to traverse the continental United States by car without giving any money to "The Man" in the form of chain gas stations, fast food restaurants or corporation-owned motels."The Ten-Cent Plague" by David Hajdu. Despite the mixed reviews, I'll be interested in seeing first hand how thorough and/or accurate this is, and absorbing any insights Hajdu has into the comic book witch hunts of the 1950s."The Book Of Fate" by Brad Meltzer. It's been sitting here for awhile, ever since it came out in paperback, but it looks as though I'm finally going to be able to crack it this summer. Meltzer is a master at creating "story propulsion" in his fiction, making the reader click with his characters and then making their anxiety the reader's anxiety as the plot barrels along.I've also got the typical and ever-present pile of comics collections to work through, including at the moment the "Iron Man Omnibus," the latest "Captain Marvel," "Adam Strange" and "Green Lama" Masterworks/Archive volumes, two volumes each of "Terry & The Pirates" and "Dick Tracy" newspaper strip compilations, the latest volume of the "Kindaichi Case Files" manga, a book on "Good Girl Art" in comics, Michelle Nolan's new book on the history of Romance Comics, and R.C. Harvey's enormous biography of Milton Caniff. Plus, about six months' worth of periodical comic book releases.

KATIE COOK (up and coming illustrator for Topps and Dark Horse)"Blankets" by Craig Thompson"Fortune and Glory: A True Hollywood Comic Book Story"(Reread) "Watchmen" by Alan More and Dave GibbonsAnything and everything to do with the 1996 Mt. Everest Disaster.

TOM DeFALCO (Writer of the fan favorite "Spider-Girl" & many other beloved tiltles)"Ultimates 2" by Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch"Showcase Presents the War That Time Forgot, Vol. 1" by Robert Kanigher, Ross Andru and Mike Esposito"The David Gemmell Troy Trilogy" (Lord of the Silver Bow," "Shield of Thunder" and "Fall of Kings")

J.M DeMATTEIS (The great writer of "Abadazad" and "Moonshadow")"This Thing Called You" by Ernest Holmes"The Essential Kabbalah" by Daniel C. Matt"1939: The Lost World Of The Fair" by David Gelernter"Godland Volume Three: Proto-Plastic Party" by Joe Casey and Tom Scioli

BRYAN DEEMER (The omni-present host of "Comic Geek Speak" & editor of "Comics Now" magazine & a true champion of the comics art form)I just finished reading both "Bone: One Volume Edition" and the "Castle Waiting" hardcover. They were both wonderful stories that I would recommend to everyone.Just today I bought the "Indiana Jones and the Seven Veils" novel. I was inspired by the movie and felt a need to experience some more adventures.And the last thing on my pile is Will Eisner's "The Plot." I have just started it, and like everything else Eisner did, it's excellent.

VITO DELSANTE (The always enthusiastic writer of "Before They were Famous," "Superman" and "The Chemistry Set")"Stan Lee and the Rise and Fall of the American Comic Book" - I'm just getting to this now (after 3 years of it being out!) and I'm completely taken by it. I originally grabbed it because Tom [Spurgeon] is a friend of mine, and because Ditko referenced it in his new "Avenging Mind" comic, but I'm learning a lot about someone I ignored as a "shameless huckster." Stan is a fascinating character!"The Ten-Cent Plague" - It seems like the perfect follow up to the Stan Lee book. Can't wait to jump into it."The Search for the Red Dragon" - I read the first book, "Here There Be Dragons," and I really want to get to this one as soon as I get off my comics history kick. This one will be read for pure fun.

JUNOT DIAZ (Pulitzer winner for his fab novel "The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao")"Poison The Cure" #2 by Jad Ziade and Alex Cahill. The first book rocked; the second book is threatening to tear the roof off."Snakes And Earrings" by Kanehara Hitomi. I can't wait to dive into this one. Read the first page and am already creeped out."Kirby: King Of Comics" by Mark Evanier.

MATT FRACTION (The author of the brilliant "Casanova" series)"The Atrocity Exhibition" by JG Ballard. I'll be going through a lot of Ballard this summer, but starting with "The Atrocity Exhibition" and going forward. There's a lot of greatness to Ballard, but what I'm really looking forward to is submerging myself in his tone and thematic obsessions. Nothing says hot fun in the summertime like the dystopic psychosexuality that modernity inflicted on the post-war generation, and the dehumanizing geographies they in turn inflicted upon all of us. And to think they called it "science fiction.""The Adventures Of Luther Arkwright" by Bryan Talbot.

Submerging my head in the endlessly rich loam that is "LUTHER ARKWRIGHT" is one of those great acts of recharging the creative batteries for me. The entire roadmap to tomorrow is here, I think, and to be able to sit back, parse the thing at leisure, and really savor Talbot's form, formal innovation, and the virtuosity of his technique never ever fails to inspire me to try to up my game, to rethink and reexamine and push it harder. I don't dislike the sequel at all, but this... this is just priceless."Strange Days" by Peter Milligan, Brendan McCarthy, and Brett Ewins.

Three issues like three atom bombs. Post-RAW, pre-Acid House, and ten thousand years ahead of anything else ever. Certainly the Tigris and Euphrates of Vertigo and everything after-- unapologetic psychedelic sci-fi and an absolutely fearless, contextless anthology. Warren Ellis told me the other day that "there's a whole alternate history of comics in "STRANGE DAYS," and he's right. "STRANGE DAYS" is the kind of comic book Casanova Quinn would read, and it's the kind of comic I want to make.

NEIL GAIMAN (Novelist, screenwriter, comics writer & global traveler)I plan to reread the complete "Journey To The West" (by Cheng'en Wu). The "Complete Peanuts" (by Charles Schulz). And have promised myself I will catch up on the last few years of "Love And Rockets" (by The Bros Hernandez)

RON GARNEY (The talented artist of "Captain America," "Amazing Spider-Man" and "Wolverine")I must confess I'm reading things more non-comics related. A few Jujutsu books, and an autobiography on my wife's grandmother who was friends with Frida, a book called "GOD: The Failed Hypothesis," (not for any personal feeling on the subject however, I just find books like that interesting) and "Landscaping--1,2,3" are the ones I'm currently going through, but its a slow process.Sometimes I'll reread old comics favorites like '300' or "Ronin" or "Watchmen." I just finished reading 'Planet Hulk' by Greg Pak.

JASON HOFIUS (My trusted co-writer on "Age of TV Heroes" & "G-Force Animated")"Pyongyang: A Journey in North Korea" by Guy Delisle

This was recommended to me by a friend a few years ago and I loved it. I go back every once in a while to check it out. Pyongyang is an illustrated story of a Canadian animator's assignment to a country most of us will never see. It's fascinating to read through his hilarious, but very realistic experiences at trying to teach animation techniques and to simply get through each day of his two month visit. Reading this almost always makes me want to follow it up with his account of a similar assignment to Shenzhen, China."Recording The Beatles" by Kevin Ryan and Brian Kehew

While primarily a book devoted to the machines, devices and locations the Beatles used to record their songs, it also includes a great diary of the band's recorded output. The depth of investigation by the authors is incredible and contains a number of surprises, even for people well-versed in Beatles musical history. It is not an inexpensive book, but for anyone who would really like to delve into how The Beatles and engineers at EMI/Abbey Road got their music to sound like it did, its indispensable."The Radio Times Guide to TV Comedy" by Mark Lewisohn

Yes, I'm one of those people that reads reference books for fun. This massive collection details comedic programs that have screened on British TV. Fortunately, this includes everything. From sitcoms to variety shows to one-shot specials, it's in the book regardless of network or country of origin. My edition goes through 2004, and I still find new items to seek out every time I pick it up. I don't think The Guide will be eclipsed until a new edition is issued. Sadly, all editions are now out-of-print, but it is well worth seeking out for fans of television comedy - or simply to read the author's savage review of "Saved By the Bell."

RANDOLPH HOPPE (Curator of the Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center, the only Mecca in comics)"The Baroque Cycle" by Neal Stephenson. Should count as about 3 or 4 books."The Singularity is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology" by Ray Kurzweil

KLAUS JANSON (The great artist of "Daredevil," "Dark Knight Returns," "Thor," and so many countless gems)"The Complete Stories of Robert Louis Stevenson," "The Last Campaign: Robert F. Kennedy and 82 Days That Inspired America" by Thurston Clark, "The Beatles as Musicians" by Walter Everett, "Criminal" by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips and the collected "The Umbrella Academy" by Gerard Way and Gabriel Ba. Throw in a sunny day and a comfortable chair and I would be happy.

ROBERT KIRKMAN (The razor-sharp Kentuckian creator of "Walking Dead" and "Invincible")"Firebreather" from Image by Phil Hester and Andy Kuhn.

"Invincible's" sister book from the early days of the Image Comics Superhero Line returns. I'm so excited to be able to read new stories with this guy again. "Crooked Little Vein" by Warren Ellis.

I started it on my vacation last summer and haven't picked it up since, but I loved what I've read so far and plan on finishing it this summer. "American Flagg" by Howard Chaykin.

I've never read the book, but with the hardcover finally coming out this summer... I'm very excited to get to experience this masterpiece for the first time.

ERIK LARSEN (The daring publisher of Image Comics)Of all the things -- I'll be reading a whole mess of fine Image comics, of course. And a mess of Golden Age comics as I do research for the "Next Issue Project." Fun stuff.

JEPH LOEB (The super versatile writer of "Ultimates 3," "Hulk," and a Co-Executive Producer on "Heroes")"The Last Days of the Lucette" by Dougal Robertson. Five castaways get attacked by killer whales. True story."Team of Rivals: The Genius of Abraham Lincoln" by Doris Goodman. Probably the best Lincoln bio out there today."The Pirates Dilema" by Matt Mason. You just gotta read it. It'll change your view of the world and tech and the internet. Amazing!

DAVID LLOYD (Artist/Writer of "Kickback" & "V for Vendetta")The only books I have begun are "The Funniest One in the Room: The Lives and Legends of Del Close" by Howard Johnson, and "Pulphope," Paul Pope's art book - both of which were given to me! I did recently read "The Life of Pi" by Yann Martel, though, which I found extraordinary. And that was given to me, too!

DAVID MANDEL (Screenwriter and comic art connoisseur)I am most excited about reading Richard Price's "Lush Life." I loved "Clockers" and "Freedomland," so cant wait.People have been recommending "Child 44" by Tom Rob Smith about a serial killer in Stalinist Russia. So I am going to check that out.And I am finally going to read "Born Standing Up" by Steve Martin, about his career as a stand up, because I was such a big fan of his old routine

LARRY MARDER (Beanworld god)"In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto" by Michael Pollen. (I Ioved his last book "The Omnivore's Dilemma")"Envisioning Information" by Edward Tufte (a Scott McCloud recommendation)"Lost Chance In China: The World War II Dispatches of John S. Service" Edited by Joseph W. Esherick (DC Comics Senior Vice President of Business Development, John Nee, recommendation and loaner)

DAVE McKEAN (Master illustrator, storyteller, and film director)"The Hands Of Orlac" by Maurice Renard"Tricks Of The Mind" by Derren Brown"God Is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens

ALAN MOORE (Writer of "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" and so much other goodness)Mr. Moore suggested Steve Aylett's "A Rebel at the End of Time." He had recently read a preview copy of the book and found it to be very clever and original.

LEAH MOORE (The talented co-writer of "Raise the Dead," "Albion" and "Wild Girl")Phillip Pullman's "Once Upon a Time in the North"

TERRY MOORE (The architect of "Echo" and "Strangers in Paradise")This summer I plan to read the first "Echo" trade paperback and Brian (Queen) May's book on the Big Bang, and whatever new book Robert B. Parker puts out. What I'd like to read is Exxon's financial books. I think there's something fishy goin' on there.

JOHN MORROW (The Grand Puba of TwoMorrows Publishing)I want to read "The Ten Cent Plague." But I'll be doing great to get in even one book with our schedule.

JERRY ORDWAY (Current artist on "Brave and the Bold" and one of the finest illustrators to even work in this medium)I hope to reread "I Am Legend" this summer, as well as Stuart Kaminsky's "Never Cross a Vampire" which is a story about private eye Toby Peters, set in the 1940's, and revolving around Bela Lugosi hiring him to solve some problem. I have been buying these used, as they are mostly out of print, but love the Toby Peters mysteries. They're light reading, but very entertaining. The other book I want to get to is "Mr. Capone" a biography of Al Capone, by Robert J Schoenberg. I just got it, and it looks pretty good. In addition to this, I often listen to books on tape while drawing, borrowed from the library or my comic store owner, Pat at Cave Comics in Newtown. Those are mostly bestsellers like James Patterson, Harlan Coben and Robert Parker.

CARL POTTS (Creator of "Alien Legion" & one of the finest editors Marvel Comics ever had)"The Reef Aquarium" Vol. 3 by L. Charles Delbeek & Julian Sprung"Fortunate Son, The Life of Elvis Presley" by Charles L. Ponce De Leon "A Framework for Understanding Poverty" by Ruby K. Payne, Ph.D.

ERIC POWELL (Head Honcho of "The Goon")"RASL" by Jeff Smith"Wally's World" by Steve Starger & J. David Spurlock"Jack Kirby's Fourth World Omnibus" volume 2 by Jack Kirby

JOHN REPPION (The other super talented co-writer of "Raise the Dead," "Albion" and "Wild Girl")"The Bleeding Horse and Other Ghost Stories" by Brian J. Showers.

DAVID ROACH The "Judge Anderson" artist & the most knowledgeable comics historian I know)"Tamara Drew" by Posy Simmonds - If it's anything like as wonderful as "Gemma Bovery" then I'll be in for a treat. When critics search for that elusive mature, adult graphic novel then reallythey need look no further than "Gemma Bovery." By the look of it "Tamara Drew" could be every bit as good."Alex Raymond: His Life and Art" by Tom Roberts - It's a big handsome tome which I've been dipping into for weeks now but I really should take the time to do it justice and read from beginning to end.It's not out yet but I'm astonished that anyone has the bravery to publish a collection of Noel Sickles art, apparently IDW are indeed that brave. I suspect I'll be the only person who buys it but nevertheless it promises to be an absolutely essential purchase for anyone serious about comics. Sickles was a giant of the art form and his decades of illustration work marked him out as a star in that world as well. This could easily turn out to be the book of the year.Bubbling under - I'm looking forward to the fourth book in the long overdue reprinting of Leonard Starrs' "On Stage" strip - the previous three volumes have looked magnificent ( of course ) but were also eminently readable .I'll also be devouring the likes of "Illustration," "Alter Ego," "Rough Stuff," "Hi-Fructose," possibly a new edition of 'Comic Art" ( I live in hope ), "Acme Novelty Library," "Alice in Sunderland," Fantagraphics' upcoming Ditko biography, "Optic Nerve" ( gathering dust for a few months now daring me to read it ) and if we're really lucky a new "Love and Rockets" comic. If I'm honest the title I'm most looking forward to is "Aarrgghh It's War" Volume 2, the second collection of great war covers from old British comics. But then I did write it so I might be accused of some bias.

ALEX ROSS (Visionary behind "Superpowers" and "Avengers/Invaders")"The Learners" by Chip Kidd."I Am America (and So Can You!)" by Stephen Colbert."Kirby: King of Comics" by Mark Evanier.

DIANA SCHUTZ (The best Editor in comics, in Pop's opinion)1 "Drawing Words & Writing Pictures" by Jessica Abel and Matt Madden, published by First Second. Summer can't come soon enough for me, and I've actually already started this one. I teach a course in Understanding Comics Art at Portland Community College, and this is the textbook I've been waiting for! From page layout/design to story structure, from panel composition to emanata and even a seventh type of panel-to-panel transition, Matt and Jessica have built on the Eisner/McCloud foundation and provided a comprehensive look at the art form and, most importantly, how it works.2. "Watchmen" by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, published by DC Comics. Of course I've already read this classic -- when it was first published, over twenty years ago, in its original serialized form. Definitely time to read it again, before the movie comes out, and in the Absolute edition.3. "Maps and Legends" by Michael Chabon, published by McSweeney's. Just about a year ago, I was whining to Michael Chabon: "I really wish you'd collect all your various nonfiction essays into book form, 'cause I'd like to read them." Well, turns out that book was already in the works, thanks to Dave Eggers's wonderful publishing house, McSweeney's -- and it's just now seen print, with an amazing three-layer dustjacket by Jordan Crane.

DREW SHENEMAN (The excellent political cartoonist & comic book reviewer of New Jersey's "Star Ledger")"The Goon" - The best comic on the racks, now monthly! Yay!"Tor" - Because Kubert is a legend and I'll read anything he does"The True Meaning of Smekday" - A kid's novel from the brilliant writer/illustrator Adam Rex. I'll read this one with my daughter.

KRISTEN SIMON (The all-knowing editor of Jim Valentino's ShadowLine imprint at Image Comics)"A New Earth (Awakening Your Life's Purpose)" by Eckhart Tolle: I've actually been struggling to read this for over a year now. It's a bit dry and repetitive, but I can't help feeling that once I make it through the thing, my life will be filled with all sorts of positive things!! (Wishful thinking) I could be wrong, but I'll never know unless I make it through it. This summer, I WILL finish it! There is also the scary thought that I will suddenly find out that my life's purpose is nothing remotely similar to what I'm currently doing. That would suck."I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson: Everyone tells me that the book is great. I've had the book long before the movie came out, and it's just been sitting on the nightstand. I saw the movie, and thought it was decent, but people who read the book beforehand seemed to be outraged and likened it to a movie that merely bore the same title. That kicked me into gear somewhat and it's definitely on my must-read list this summer."I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell" by Tucker Max: This is a non-fiction book that is a best-seller. I picked it up and read the back and knew it would make a great beach book. I wish some of the writers I edit could write a text solicitation this good: My name is Tucker Max, and I am an asshole. I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with more women than is safe or reasonable, and just generally act like a raging dickhead. But, I do contribute to humanity in one very important way: I share my adventures with the world.Plus, he lives right near me in Chicago, and I always think it's fun to read a local author or a book that takes place locally. I just finished "My Bloody Life: The Making of a Latin King" which was about a kid who became a Latin King gang member in the '80's. Freaky stuff, reading about things that happened mere blocks from where I now live.

RICHARD STARKINGS (Creator of "Hip Flask" & the writer of my favorite monthly "Elephantmen")Frank Bellamy's " Robin Hood" published by Book Palace"Incal Final" by Jodorowsky and Ladroenn, published by Humanoides in France."Tamara Drewe" by Posy Simmonds, published by Mariner Books in October, but some of us have the UK hardcover already!

ROGER STERN (The quintessential writer of Amazing Spider-Man, Avengers, Captain America & so much more!)Well, I recently finished reading "The Audacity of Hope" by a gentleman named Barack Obama -- I highly recommend it.

I'm currently reading Stephen Colbert's "I am America and So Can You" -- also highly recommended. (The chapter on Religion is especially good.)

Next up is "BOOM!" by Tom Brokaw.

DAVE STEWART (Colorist Extraordinaire!) "Dhammapada: A New Translation of the Buddhist Classic with Annonations" with a translation by Gil Fronsdal"Solomon Kane" by Robert E. Howard"The Walking Dead" by Robert Kirkman and Charlie Adlard

ROY THOMAS (Comic Industry Icon; Editor of Alter Ego)"Esalen: America and the Religion of No Religion" by Jeffrey J. Kripal (2007), about the history of the Esalen Institute on California's Big Sur Peninsula, where Dann and I will be attending a symposium on myth and comics in the first week of June."The Fall of Troy" by Quintus Smyrnaeus, the Loeb Classical Library translaton of the ancient epic which was a sequel to Homer's Iliad"Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight against America's Enemies" by M. Stanton Evans, an historical re-evaluation of McCarthy and McCarthyism -- done partly as research for my TwoMorrows work-in-progress book on comics of the Cold War.

ADRIAN TOMINE (His work has never let me down. No one catches the despair of my generation like he does.)"Indignation" by Philip Roth"Lowboy" by John Wray "Gary Panter" by Gary Panter ERIC NOLEN-WEATHINGTON (Editor of the distinguished "Modern Masters" series)In the comics category, I have high hopes for what Mike Kunkel will do with "Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam." He's a great artist and storyteller, and he knows how to write for a younger audience.In the OGN category, I've been waiting five years for another "Apocalipstix" story from Cameron Stewart and Ray Fawkes, and the wait is finally over! Think Josie and the Pussycats in the world of Mad Max. It's just a lot of fun.And in the novel category, I just picked up a book called "Space Vulture," by Gary Wolf and John Myers. It's a throwback to the pulp sci-fi adventure stories you might find in "Planet Stories" magazine. It looks to be a fun, breezy read -- perfect for summer.

RAMIN ZAHED (Editor-in-Chief of the terrific "Animation Magazine") "The Art of WALL.E." You can't take this one to the beach. Rather, you probably want to put on disposable gloves so you won't get any fingerprints on the beautifully reproduced illustrations (over 250 are featured) for Pixar's much-anticipated ninth feature film.

Written by Tim Hauser (co-director of "A Bug's Life") and "WALL.E" director Andrew Stanton, this is a must-have for animation fans and those who will fall for this summer's lovable robot-- and that's probably everybody!"Maps and Legends." Michael Chabon, the author of "Wonder Boys" and "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay "comes to the defense of comic- books and genre movies and gives snobs and academics a piece of his mind in this collection of essays. Yet another reason for us to admire one of America's finest living authors."Ganges" #2. Kevin Huizenga's clever 32-page comic-book follows the odd day-to-day life of a dot.com-era company employee, but I hear it also has a surreal twist. Great text, awesome drawings and a cool surprise -- now that's what summer reading is all about!

And in case you wanted to know what I'm reading during the cruel summer...GEORGE KHOURY (Your "Pop!" captain and host)"Benjamin Franklin: An American Life" by Walter Issacson. After waiting several hours for a Neil Gaiman signing and talk during a "New York is Book Country" Fair in 2003, I was glancing over a display with some books and checking out this particular title. Out of the blue, this well-dressed man on his way to the elevator stops suddenly, he ask me if I wanted my book signed? I hadn't even purchased the thing - what do you say in such an event? Sure, I smile; I'm a pushover. I paid my thirty dollars as he quickly vanished. Anyways, four years ago I read 120 pages about Ben Franklin, who had to be the coolest figure who ever walked the earth. He was a patriot, journalist, a scientist, a politician, a ladies man and this country's first national treasure. A man like him only comes around every thousand years, I'm guessing. Dead or alive, I'm finishing this book by the end of summer."SAMMY: An Autobiography" by Sammy Davis Jr. and Jane and Burt Boyar.Sammy was one of the most important entertainers of the 20th Century. He was also a very complex man who broke a lot of barriers. "Searching for John Ford" by Joseph McBride Although my favorite director is Frank Capra (for the emotions that he project unto a reel) - I still have to say that John Ford was probably the overall master filmmaker. No director has come close to capturing the true grandness and power that film should over its audience. His films were true experiences that all should see! With that said, he was a difficult man with his own demons."Schulz and Peanuts" by David MichaelisI'm hoping that this book isn't as depressing as the Peanuts strips themselves. (Hey, I kid.) Have a good summer, everyone! I appreciate your readership, e-mails and patience on reading "Pop!" - Feel free to send your story requests or apple pies to me.