WARNING: The following contains major spoilers for The Expanse Season 5, Episode 6, "Tribes," available now on Amazon Prime Video.
When Amos returned to Earth in Season 5 of The Expanse, fans expected him to confront his past, but what they didn't expect was him using the opportunity to call in a favor so he could visit Clarissa Mao, the daughter of Jules-Pierre Mao and sister of Julie Mao, in prison. Nadine Nicole first brought Clarissa to life in Season 3 when the character was going by the alias Melba Koh and driven by vengeance. Since then, she's paid for her crimes in a maximum security prison where she's required to stay on blockers to suppress the enhancements that enabled her to commit her crimes in the first place. Yet Clarissa gets a surprise second chance when one of Marco Inaros' asteroids hits Earth, destroying the prison but freeing Clarissa. And in the latest episode, "Tribes," Clarissa and Amos are a tribe of two making their way across the damaged landscape, trying to survive.
The episode delves into Clarissa's perspective as she continues to grapple with her past while trying to decide who she wants to be now, and Nicole gives the character a philosophical thoughtfulness and fundamental likeability -- even when she's tearing a full-grown man apart. In an interview following the release of the episode, Nicole discussed returning to The Expanse in Season 5, working with Wes Chatham and shooting those propulsive, action-packed scenes where Clarissa uses her enhancements.
CBR: Did you know you would be coming back for Season 5?
Nadine Nicole: I was anticipating it and crossing my fingers, but you never really know until you're on set -- like they say, until the fat lady sings. So, I was hoping so. I knew in the books that that was the case, but I didn't know exactly how it was going to pan out for […] TV, how it would actually pan out. So I'm super excited to be here.
Every time we see your character, she's in a different state. So what has it been like to return this time?
Really interesting, and I'm grateful for the arc. At first, I was really nervous when I got the booking for Clarissa, I was like, "Oh, my gosh, can I play a murderer? We're going to see. We've got to dig deep and see what happens. Let's go." And then, it's interesting as an artist and an actor, being one of the bad guys because usually people kind of don't like you. So it's been really fun coming back and getting that second chance as an artist, but also in her character, the evolution is just really profound.
And I've been having a lot of just insight and growth as an artist, leaning into her character and learning more about her journey, just me as a human, Nadine. I'm just really grateful for the opportunity to learn so much as an artist from this character. She’s grappling with her morals. How can she right what she's done wrong? Where is she going in the future? And she's really just kind of in process, in progress, trying to be better. So it's just interesting because that journey, that's kind of what we're all going through, right?
She talks about using a poem she wrote about not being a killer, even though she has killed as her mantra. As an actor, what did that say to you about Clarissa and her current mindset?
For me, I think Clarissa is working with the subconscious when she's in prison a lot, because she's on the blockers and they make her psychologically really open and abstract and gooey, and that's kind of where we can be in both worlds. We're kind of teetering on that line. So she's open to these revelations and I think the subconscious is coming up saying, "That's not really how you are even though you've done these things."
And I really love that poem, because a lot of the fans have repeated it on Tweets and stuff, and people relate to it. They remember it and they get it, and I think especially people who have made mistakes in their life that can empathize with Clarissa about leaving that in the past and moving forward. That poem for Clarissa is a sign of hope of moving into being a better person.
We do see her kill again in "Tribes," but she's also the first between her and Amos to point out that it was wrong. Is her moral compass developing more over time as she has been in prison and been able to think about what she did?
Yes. In the books, Clarissa goes through really deep revelations. She goes through basically a spiritual awakening of understanding what's going on because, like I said, the blockers kind of open her to this subconscious, abstract way of thinking and understanding. So you don't see it in the TV series, but in the books she goes through an awakening and revelations. And so at this point, she knows she's done a lot of things that are really wrong. And for a while, she's like she doesn't deserve a second chance.
But I think the newfound freedom of not being in prison physically, Amos being there for her and her going back into survival mode but still with nothing to lose because if she went back to prison then she’d just be back to where she was or if she died, it might be better than being in prison on blocking agents your entire life. So I think at this point, she has nothing to lose and she just is asking questions that can promote change. And when she speaks with Amos, I think, she's questioning, "Well, are we going to try and be better? Was that right? Like that's survival and maybe, yeah, survival of the fittest, but what is our right path or how do we do that? Or do we want to be better, because I don't think that's it.” And that's where Amos and Clarissa start kind of shifting together in their development of their moral compass and characters. And I think that she’s in the process of developing her moral compass.
Amos is someone who fundamentally needs someone else around that has a stronger moral compass than him, and in a certain way, Clarissa ends up being that for him. Did you ever see it that way or did you see it as you both are developing your moral compass together?
I did not know it was going that route until I read all the scripts and saw them in the book. But I didn't think that it would come across as strongly as it might start showing up because Amos is such a strong character, and we love him for all that he is. And we still trust him, whether it's for his friends that he's fighting for or survival that he's going for. I think a lot of humans just understand and relate to it, and say, "Okay, well that’s Amos." And they just get him, people love him. So when you start kind of seeing him shift, I think that really surprises people. And that's why, even I was a little but like, "Oh, yeah, Clarissa’s helping him change," they're going on this change together. So we'll see how that pans out. [Laughs]
Clarissa has done a lot of bad things, she's had a lot of issues, but she never seems to engage in self-pity. Was that a conscious choice for you as an actor, or was that baked into the character in your mind?
Well, at this point in Season 5, I think her pity is gone. She's just kind of given up on herself. But before that, in Season 3, when she was on the trail of vengeance, there was a lot of self-pity then, I think. She was like, "Woe is me. My dad doesn't love me, so I'm going to kill everyone to show him that I deserve it." I think that was a lot of self-pity because she hadn't really found out who she was yet. She was so desperate for the love and respect of her father, and that comes with a lot of lack of self-awareness and not knowing who you truly are. So once she was able to kind of let go of that during her revelations in prison, moving out of that fifth season is where we see those changes start to really happen.
The other thing she and Amos talk about is that she doesn't know whether her father is dead or alive because he's never come to see her in prison. And she presents it very matter-of-fact way, even though, in many ways, her father’s the catalyst for her being there. How did you understand and play that arc?
Exactly. Yeah, I know. She's just kind of like, "Well, that's the way that it is now." And I think that that's part of the relinquishing, the letting go of needing the acceptance of her father. I think she's entirely 180 from desperately needing it to being like, "F*ck that. I was wrong. I don't know who I am. I've done a lot of wrong things." And she's just like, "Okay, my father doesn't love me. He hasn't called." Matter of fact. "I'm over it." Not really over it or mad, just that's the way that it is, and she doesn't want it to affect her anymore. She has no place to go. There's nowhere for her to go but up. And so I think the only way to do that is by becoming empty and then asking the right questions to refill that.
The scenes where Clarissa uses her enhancements look wild. What has it been like to shoot them?
Right? It's been interesting because Clarissa isn't a fighter or a martial artist. She's just this girl who went and got the adrenaline mod. And then in ["Tribes"] you see her fighting like a cat. She's just kind of clawing at this guy. And that's what's been kind of fun is that it's just this wild girl out to gain vengeance. And then she's like, "Yeah, that was a part of my whole messed-up thing. I don't know what I was thinking or doing."
The scenes are really fun to shoot. I mean, you get the action and the blood and the guns or jumping on wires. I think those are actually my favorite part of shooting because it's just so much fun.
Are they choreographed or do you just go for it?
They are a bit choreographed. I definitely talk about it with the director beforehand. Because in the books it's a little bit bigger, her reaction to the mods, her physical reaction. But on film, it's hard to really go that route, so you have to trim it down and simplify. So we definitely stayed with the eyes, staying really close to the eyes and then a little bit of the vomiting. But there was a lot of convulsion and shaking and falling in the books and we did a tiny bit of that in the show. But I would just kind of go for it and try and then the director would say, "Let's take away this or try that." So it was definitely a collaborative endeavor.
This season you've mostly worked with Wes Chatham, who you've had some scenes with before but not this many. What has it been like expanding the relationship between your characters this season?
So much fun. So to be honest, when I watched the show, I loved Amos. I was like, "That is such a fun character to watch." You just don't know what he's going to do next. And he's so present. I just think Wes' performance is fantastic. And Amos, the character, is just one of my favorites as a fan. And so getting to work with [Chatham] and develop this arc and chemistry as these characters was a blast for me. It's kind of my first bigger role that I really love and has challenged me and grown me, so I'm really grateful for it. And I think doing it by an actor like Wes, who is seasoned and professional and an inspiration -- I just was so grateful and honored to be a part of it really, just riding on his coattails.
Can you tease anything about what might be coming up next for Clarissa this season and whether we might see her in Season 6?
So there's definitely some instances coming up where Clarissa's morals will be challenged again. And I'll just say that she does bring some inspiration to people but also a lot of trouble, and so it'll be fun watching that unfold.
And I honestly don't know what's going to happen in Season 6, so just stay tuned to find out.
An adaptation of the novel series of the same name by James S.A. Corey, The Expanse stars Steven Strait, Cas Anvar, Dominique Tipper, Wes Chatham, Shohreh Aghdashloo and Frankie Adams. New episodes of Season 5 premiere Wednesdays on Amazon Prime Video.