This is "From a Different Point of View," a feature where I discuss a comic book series with other people. Ever since the pandemic began, I've been doing twice-weekly reader chats about notable comic book crossovers, storylines or miniseries. We started with Secret Wars and then we did Knightfall and now we're starting with Maximum Carnage!
Each time around, I'll share a chunk of our discussion.
When last we checked in on Maximum Carnage, we had just finished discussing Amazing Spider-Man #378, "Demons on Broadway," Maximum Carnage Part 3 by David Michelinie, Mark Bagley and Randy Emberlin, with colors by Bob Sharen and letters by Rick Parker.
Carnage has escaped from custody and gone on a rampage in Manhattan, along with Shriek and Doppelganger. Venom has just arrived from New York City. Meanwhile, Spider-Man is rattled from an earlier battle where he tried to stop the villains with Cloak and Dagger and Dagger was seemingly killed! Mary Jane tries to convince Peter to give being Spider-Man a rest during this situation, but Peter can't do that and he heads back out to hunt down Carnage. He encounters the Demogoblin instead and only barely fights him off, but reinjures his ribs (which he hurt earlier in the crossover). Spider-Man then heads home, but Venom attacks Carnage and his crew and gets beaten badly. An injured Venom arrives at Peter and Mary Jane's apartment and passes out.
What happens next? Let's find out in Spider-Man #35, Maximum Carnage Part 4, "Team Venom," by Howard Mackie, Tom Lyle and Scott Hanna with letters by Rick Parker and colors by Ericka Moran and Kevin Tinsley.
Chris Coke: Team Venom. Remember, this was long before Team Jacob.
Flavio Sette: Or Team Westen.
Writerboy: But right around the same time as Team 7
Sean Whitmore: My TPB apparently has something against reprinting the creative team credits.
Chris Coke: After catching up on the first few issues, Brian, it occurs to me that Cloak/Shriek are an example of the thing you were looking for some months back, a villain who had battled the hero before her first appearance.
Flavio Sette: Love me some Team 7.
Brian Cronin: This issue marks the Spider-Man debut of Tom Lyle, who just moved to Marvel after a really successful run on the Robin series of miniseries with Chuck Dixon and Bob Smith.
Flavio Sette: Oh, wow, I didn't know about that!
Flavio Sette: And Lyle sadly passed away recently.
Brian Cronin: Yep, that was a terrible tragedy. He was way too young.
Brian Cronin: This was the first hint that Spider-Man might eventually get an actual creative team.
Brian Cronin: Up until this point, Marvel had followed McFarlane with Erik Larsen and when Larsen left, they did short arcs by notable writers.
Chris Coke: But Spider-Man doesn't have a writer yet.
Writerboy: Those short arcs were pretty good, I remember
Sean Whitmore: That's right, lotta 2-and-3-parters
Brian Cronin: They're still treating it as a fill-in, writer-wise.
Chris Coke: Looking now, Mackie/Lyle start with issue 44.
Brian Cronin: Yeah, not until #44 do Lyle and Mackie solidify
Writerboy: Yeah, after this is a cool Electro three-parter by, if I recall correctly, Dematteis
Chris Coke: Lyle did Amazing Spider-Man annual 27 around this time.
Brian Cronin: And then he did Venom: Funeral Pyre
Brian Cronin: Which was one of the earliest Venom miniseries.
Chris Coke: Yeah
Tom A.: Yeah, the miniseries which were really an ongoing series in all but name.
Brian Cronin: So giving a guy a Venom/Punisher miniseries was very much taking care of him until he eventually got his regular gig on Spider-Man.
Sean Whitmore: Venom and Punisher in the same book, foil cover on the first issue, that was hopefully a nice chunk of change.
Tom A.: I noticed that they misspelled "Doppelganger" as "Doppleganger" on the cover. Which I myself also did in a previous chat.
Flavio Sette: We open with a helluva plot twist: Shriek is in fact Penny Lane from Almost Famous!
Flavio Sette: Really feels like this revelation that Shriek used to be a groupie is supposed to make her look bad, which, yikes (if anything, it should make you feel for her, considering what I've heard about how groupies were treated).
Brian Cronin: It's interesting that Lyle sticks with the Bagley ax hands
Brian Cronin: I wonder if Michelinie was pushing them, since he wrote this one.
Writerboy: I had the Carnage action figure that came with a snap-on ax hand
Flavio Sette: Yeah, I had that one.
Sean Whitmore: Yeah, Writerboy, I was thinking of that same thing
Flavio Sette: So I guess it was a thing.
Flavio Sette: Beyond just the Bagley and Lyle issues.
Chris Coke: I like when they all pose like they're on a family sitcom.
Sean Whitmore: Doppelganger looks hilarious in that panel
Tom A.: Yeah, Carnage really seems to have quickly accepted this weird family dynamic.
Tom A.: And Doppy looks so happy.
Brian Cronin: So Michelinie writes this one, Kavanagh writes the next issue and DeMatteis the third Spider-Man tie-in. That seems like it must have been confusing at the time for them.
Sean Whitmore: "I understand what's going on! Honest!"
Flavio Sette: Yeah. "Family picture time, everyone say 'Cheese'!"
Writerboy: It's Natural Born Killers +1
Brian Cronin: Very much so.
Chris Coke: Michelinie, you get parts 3, 7, 11 and 4.
Flavio Sette: I just love that even Doppelganger’s smiling here.
Brian Cronin: Yeah, I think Lyle is definitely leaning into the corniness of it.
Sean Whitmore: I love the idea that MJ and Peter left Brock sprawled out on the floor while they put on clothes.
Brian Cronin: That would require them to have paid attention to what the other artist drew, Sean, which doesn't seem to be the case in this crossover.
Writerboy: in MJ's case, what's clearly a clubbing outfit'
Flavio Sette: As we'll see next issue.
Chris Coke: The first issue did the hard work of setting up their deep familial connection in how they met. Carnage met Shriek and then they both met Doppelganger. Family.
Sean Whitmore: Lyle on the phone: "WHAT kind of slippers?"
Flavio Sette: Lyle gives Venom footie pajamas later on.
Writerboy: in the middle of the day
Brian Cronin: Boy, Michelinie was sure leaning into "Unpleasant Mary Jane" at this point in time, wasn't he?
Chris Coke: To quote the Simpsons. "There were script problems from day one." "It doesn't seem like anybody read the script." "That was the problem."
Writerboy: it's kinda like Breaking Bad, where she clearly has a legitimate beef, and yet we''re supposed to think, "what a bitch!"
Sean Whitmore: MJ in this series is starting to come off a little like Chuck Austen's Lois Lane
Chris Coke: I'm sympathetic toward Mary Jane's concerns here. I wouldn't want Venom on my floor either.
Brian Cronin: Excellent point.
Tom A.: Especially since Venom traumatized MJ back in the day.
Flavio Sette: Yep.
Tom A.: Frankly, I'd want him gone too.
Brian Cronin: As we discussed, Mary Jane got over her trauma SUPER quick, huh?
Brian Cronin: This is the first time she's interacted with him since he terrorized her in #299-300
Brian Cronin: And she's more irritated than scared.
Sean Whitmore: Yeah, she doesn't even mention it specifically, just that Venom has tried to kill Peter.
Flavio Sette: Yeah, like I said, I think she's turned her fear into anger as a coping mechanism.
Writerboy: Diane Duane addressed her dealing with that trauma in ONE Spidey novel more than pretty much any comic ever has
Tom A.: And Peter instead of saying "we burried the hatchet and swore not to kill me" says "he can't kill anyone RIGHT NOW." Not helping his case.
Next time, Spider-Man expands his team of heroes as he visits the Black Cat.