This is "From a Different Point of View," a feature where I discuss a comic book series with other people. Ever since the pandemic began, I've been doing twice-weekly reader chats about notable comic book crossovers, storylines or miniseries. We started with Secret Wars and then we did Knightfall and now we're starting with Maximum Carnage!
Each time around, I'll share a chunk of our discussion.
When last we checked in on Maximum Carnage, we had just started discussing Web of Spider-Man #101, "Darklight," Maximum Carnage Part 2, by Terry Kavanagh, Alex Saviuk and Don Hudson, with colors by Bob Sharen and letters by Steve Dutro, Spider-Man was left in an alley after injuring his rib in a fight with Shriek and Doppelganger, who were both working with an escaped Carnage as sort of his "family."
An oddly diverse gang tried to kill the wounded Spidey, but Spider-Man was rescued by Cloak and Dagger. They took him to a nearby church to recuperate as Shriek and Doppelganger continue to hunt Spider-Man down. In the meantime, Carnage is paying a visit to J. Jonah Jameson at the Daily Bugle. Shriek and Doppelganger tracked down the heroes and a fight began and then Carnage showed up!
Brian Cronin: It's funny how Maximum Carnage has a theme
Brian Cronin: And it is PILING ON that theme.
Brian Cronin: Darkness vs. light
Brian Cronin: The story is even called "Darklight."
Tom A.: Oh no, it's Kingdom Hearts.
Brian Cronin: It's like an anvil drop. Especially when Dagger then is KILLED...
Tom A.: Darkness within darkness awaits you.
Flavio Sette: They should've called it Blacklight and had the cover be a blacklight painting
Sean Whitmore: Blacklight covers would be done for a later Venom mini
Sean Whitmore: With Morbius, oooOoooOoo
Flavio Sette: Ha, I didn't know about that, Sean!
Brian Cronin: I love Spider-Man telling Carnage, "Everyone has a fatal flaw" and Carnage is like, "Oh, right, and yours is stabbing you."
Brian Cronin: "Carnage stabbing me in my side aggravated my earlier injury."
Sean Whitmore: That “fatal flaw” line is a clunky Kavanagh-ism
Brian Cronin: Really, Spidey, getting stabbed in your side isn't an issue in and of itself?
Sean Whitmore: “Should never believe your own hype...BUt everyone has a fatal flaw.”
Flavio Sette: Dagger mentions she's a mutant here, which is a whole thing in itself.
Sean Whitmore: Why the “but”?
Brian Cronin: Yeah, it's all pretty bad.
Tom A.: Oh yeah, I'm not even sure if they're currently meant to be mutants or not.
Flavio Sette: We wouldn't find out they weren't actually mutants for a while.
Sean Whitmore: I can’t wait to hear about how bad Spider-Man’s ribs hurt for the next 13 months.
Brian Cronin: "The privilege of of slaughtering Spider-man was mine by right"
Brian Cronin: Is Carnage now a Claremont X-Men villain?
Sean Whitmore: Carnage the Klingon
Flavio Sette: "You'll belong to me, Spider-Man, body and soul!"
Tom A.: Lots of Spider-Man villains are oddly possessive of killing Spider-Man.
Brian Cronin: Kavanagh doesn't have a handle on Carnage's voice at all.
Brian Cronin: You 'd think someone would have tried to keep that consistent, no?
Flavio Sette: Speaking of the dialogue
Sean Whitmore: The editor was too busy trying to make sure all 14 parts of this massacre story had no blood in it
Flavio Sette: Carnage mentions that dude he threw into the church had spilled his guts, the guy looks fine, I don't think he has so much as a bruise on him.
Flavio Sette: No cuts, no blood.
Tom A.: I'm still not sure why Carnage and his gang just leaves.
Sean Whitmore: Same reason he left Jameson alive: shrug
Flavio Sette: As I read this issue the other day, something occurred to me.
Flavio Sette: Carnage must’ve been at least partly based on Freddy Krueger, right? Between the serial killing, the finger blades and the bad jokes, those two have a heck of a lot in common.
Brian Cronin: It's likely an influence.
Tom A.: Not sure why they bother hiding Demogoblin in shadows, it's so obviously him.
Sean Whitmore: I wanna call him a Joker ripoff, but I’m not even sure if the Joker was quite so manic at this point in time
Brian Cronin: And yeah, Tom, shadows and then having him speak in dialogue and CITE HIS EARLIER APPEARANCE
Brian Cronin: It reminds me a LOT of the early issues of Knightfall, like the one where Bird finds Batman passed out
Brian Cronin: "Want to break his back now, Bane, while he's passed out?"
Brian Cronin: "No, he hasn't been worn down enough."
Sean Whitmore: I do remember that by the time of Batman/Spider-Man, Joker and Carnage were almost interchangable
Brian Cronin: Similarly, "We can't kill you now for...reasons."
Flavio Sette: Dagger gets temporarily killed off to give Cloak some cheap pathos.
Brian Cronin: "We killed Dagger. That's enough for today."
Brian Cronin: She gets killed off to the play into the darkness themes of the story.
Brian Cronin: It's all about whether heroes should give into the darkness
Brian Cronin: And losing the "light" of Dagger suggests that Cloak will do so
Flavio Sette: Yeah, but still.
Brian Cronin: Yeah, it's not much.
Flavio Sette: She's there to get killed and move Cloak's character arc along.
Brian Cronin: I'm not saying it was some great idea.
Flavio Sette: At least it wasn't permanent.
Brian Cronin: Oddly enough, Venom doesn't need to read a newspaper to learn that Carnage is looking for him.
Flavio Sette: Well, "permanent". Comic books.
Brian Cronin: But just coverage of Carnage breaking into the Daily Bugle.
Sean Whitmore: Venom should have seen video of the “BUG” sign and thought, “Of course!!!”
Brian Cronin: Carnage being old school Riddler there
Tom A.: You'd think Carnage killing 87 people when he broke out would get more attention than him threatening Jameson.
Flavio Sette: Yeah.
Brian Cronin: Just a sad statement of how the public views people in institutions as less than
Brian Cronin: Which I'm sure was the political point that they were trying to get across
Brian Cronin: Clearly.
Brian Cronin: No doubt about it.
Sean Whitmore: Did that ending newscast in any way reflect the conversation Jameson and Robertson had?
Tom A.: True, "rich white man gets attacked"
Sean Whitmore: Like, the thing JJ was “holding back on” was what Robbie didn’t want him to print for some reason?
Brian Cronin: Perhaps, Sean, we won't know until we see the editorial.
Brian Cronin: Which I don't think we actually see.
Sean Whitmore: It’s like they had an argument for no reason except to fill out, like, one panel.
Flavio Sette: It's just a full page of Jonah saying it's Spider-Man's fault Carnage killed all those people.
Brian Cronin: "But don't come to NY, Venom, because I'm too ethical to repeat Carnage's demands"
Sean Whitmore: Robbie just shaking his head for 30 years. “Oh, that Jonah is incorrigible.”
Tom A.: I mean, technically it's true, symbiote and all.
Flavio Sette: So I guess the moral of this story is Spider-Man actually is a threat.
Flavio Sette: Or wait, no, he's a menace, that's it!
Sean Whitmore: That thing Demogoblin said about the wraiths inhabiting Doppelganger...never comes up again, right?
Brian Cronin: I don't believe so, Sean.
Brian Cronin: Lots of Kavanagh plots never wrap up.
Sean Whitmore: Damn crossover’s like the wild west
Brian Cronin: Like the new villain group that forms at the end of Web #100
Brian Cronin: That never goes anywhere
Tom A.:The 90s seem to be full of dropped plots, more than other eras.
Brian Cronin: So many new titles introduced at once, I think, Tom.
Flavio Sette: I guess it's the result of a million writers trying to ape Chris Claremont.
Brian Cronin: And yes, that was definitely an issue in the X-Books
Brian Cronin: People trying to evoke Claremont
Flavio Sette: It's funny, next issue picks up right from where this issue left off, even though Brock has to fly from San Francisco to New York.
Flavio Sette: So either Eddie took a concorde to New York or Spider-Man and Cloak hung out in that church for twelve hours.
Brian Cronin: Both believable for 1990s comic book
Tom A.: Eddie Brock can fast travel.
Sean Whitmore: Ha, yeah. Spidey doesn’t even see Carnage again till after Eddie shows up on his doorstep
Brian Cronin: Okay, folks, so next time, we discuss Venom's return to the Big Apple!
Brian Cronin: And how it does not go well!