Acclaimed novelist and screenwriter John Ridley (The Other History of the DC Universe, Superman: Red and Blue) is once again returning to the world of Tim "Jace" Fox, the Next Batman, in the four-issue miniseries The Next Batman: Second Son. Alongside artists Tony Akins, Travel Foreman, and Mark Morales, Ridley brings to life the origin of the new Dark Knight who first appeared in Future State: The Next Batman. While the Future State story takes place five years from now, Second Son takes place in the present and depicts the events that will lead to Tim first taking up the iconic mantle.
With the first few issues already available digitally and the physical copies hitting stores on April 6, Ridley sat down with CBR to discuss his latest foray into the life of Tim Fox, dropping teasers as to what can be expected in the future of The Next Batman, as well as insights into Tim's family dynamic and supporting cast.
CBR: In Second Son, it looks like you're going to be telling the story of how Tim becomes the Batman we saw in "Future State." Is there anything that you'd like to add to that? Are there any details you can share about where this story is going?
John Ridley: Well, it's certainly meant to add context to a character who has been off the page for years. We begin to answer the question of who he is, where he's been, and what he's been doing. There's definitely an element of that. But Second Son wasn't meant to be just an origin story, but more of a platform for the entire Fox family. In this series, readers will be getting a better understanding of the relationship between Tim's parents, Lucious and Tanya, and a better understanding of his siblings, Luke, Tam, and Tiff. I don't think it's a secret at this point that Tiff is being lined up to be her own hero, and some of that parallels to things that are being set up to happen in the Bat-Universe.
We wanted this to be more than just Tim's version of walking down the alley after leaving the movie theater. We wanted a more well-rounded story than that. I'm not saying origin stories aren't well-rounded, but they're very specific in their dispensation. They're meant to set up one specific thing. There are certainly elements of that in Second Son, but we wanted to make it more active and immediate, and have consequences that went beyond just Tim/Jace.
One of the things that I'm really excited about in the storytelling is the Fox family as a whole, not just as characters, but also because we don't get to see enough Black and brown families on the page that have good but complicated relationships. None of the other characters are there by accident either. Renee Montoya being offered the chance to be the Commissioner of Gotham is huge.
CBR: It's interesting that you bring up Renee, because she's in a somewhat precarious position. She has a past as the masked vigilante The Question, yet she's being placed in a position that directly opposes masked heroes and villains. Is there anything you can share about how you plan to play out this development?
Ridley: It's complicated, but that's exactly why I find it interesting. Renee has a very complex past aside from her vigilante activities, with her drinking problem and dealing with her feelings of having failed as a police officer. But also, to judge people, you have to have some experience walking in their shoes. So however she may think or feel about what's going on, she's fundamentally a cop who has risen through the ranks. She's seen a lot, and had major ups and downs both in her normal life and behind the mask. Renee is a character who I think, is one of the really great characters in the DCU, and I'm going to do everything I can to elevate her and almost anyone else who shows up in Second Son.
CBR: Can we expect this series to reveal why Tim changed his name to Jace?
Ridley: That's another really good question. We will certainly get a much better sense of why, how, and when he changed his name from someone who was there when it happened. We may or may not get the full, complete story though. But I will say that it's not haphazard. I'm not just making this up as I go along. Tim is a person who's going through a transformation; he looked at his past and decided that he was not the same person. There a couple of reasons why he chose that name specifically and what the change means to him. His reasons were very personal.
As I've told other people, I want to treat these characters like they are real. I don't want to say that I do that and no other writer does, but that name change is very real and very personal. In Second Son, you'll get more of an understanding of it, but the full story will continue to be revealed, as we delve more into Jace, his existence, and who he is as a person.
CBR: So I gather there's, there's a reason why he chose that particular name.
Ridley: Yes, absolutely. There are many very personal reasons, both for me and for the character. It's a part of my life that I'm proud to represent.
CBR: How much of Tim's story is derived from your personal experience?
Ridley: A lot of it, from being around siblings who were better equipped and more successful than I was to obviously, being Black. I'm very fortunate to come from a Black family that was blessed with means, but also understanding that those means don't necessarily protect you. Sometimes representing is an awesome responsibility, and it's hard to live up to, but it's a great feeling when you do live up to it. Sometimes it can feel burdensome, when you've fallen short, at least based on other people's expectations. I can relate to all of those things.
I don't put on a costume, go out at night, and try to fight crime. But I do understand what it means to have a moral compass and trying to do what's right in a world that doesn't understand what you're doing. At some point, the public is going to realize that Jace is Black. We're not going to shy away from what that means when that's revealed. All of these things, are very much part of my lived experience, and an example of the things that I want to bring to the story.
CBR: When The Next Batman was first introduced in Future State, one of his main adversaries was law-enforcement. Was that meant to reflect some of the things that have been happening recently in society?
Ridley: Not directly. These things are planned well in advance of whatever is going on in the present. But I think we all understood what it would mean to elevate a character of color into a space irrespective of a police force, private or otherwise. And that certainly came into a sharper resolve, with the summer we had last year. If you're Black in America, you've had some kind of experience with police officers, that may have been more aggressive than if that same experience happened with folks who represent the prevailing culture. They certainly may not have been as extreme as some of the things that we've seen but a transgression is still a transgression.
The American Way was dialed up to 11 in its depiction of race and representation, and even though it was a constructed world, it dealt with the very real world of racism. It's dialed back to nine in The Other History of the DC Universe, but that series still doesn't shy away from very tough storytelling. This space is different and meant for a wider audience.
There was a line in Future State when Tanya was saying to Tiff, that justice never wears a hood or a mask. The fact that "hood" was put in there was not an accident, and neither was her perspective as a Black woman about masked justice. She's someone who buys into the Magistrate and what they're all about, and that perspective is definitely infused by her lived experience.
I've lived a career of writing stories that are perfect stories for particular moments. If we weren't going through what we're going through right now, I hate to say it, but we'd be going through something else that was very similar. I'm not surprised that racism exists and it gets modulated. Today it's Black people, tomorrow, it's Asians, then we're back to Hispanics, and people coming from across the border. I'm happy to insert my opinions. I'm happy to speak up where I see injustice. But what's going on with the Magistrate was going to happen, irrespective of whether I was part of the story or not.
CBR: Tim and Luke seem to have a somewhat adversarial relationship, to put it mildly. But the irony of it is that they're more alike than either of them suspects, Is there any chance of their alter egos eventually meeting?
Ridley: If it's left to me, I definitely have a plan for the future, and that future certainly involves these two coming together and getting to know each other better. There's a scene in Future State that hints at this. When Luke is talking to Tiff, he discusses the new Batman and says that whoever is going out in the middle of the night to do the right thing has their heart in the right place. So there's the irony that sometimes we don't see the people closest to us the way we need to see them. He thinks this Next Batman is a good guy but can barely stand to look at the person behind the mask. It's almost inevitable that they'll meet at some point, but I can't speak about what that meeting may be.
CBR: In Future State one of your main antagonists aside from the Magistrate was a street gang that was imitating Bane. Was that done in light of what happened to him in Infinite Frontier?
Ridley: Bane has become one of Batman's most iconic villains since he first appeared. And now, even with his passing, he's still an iconic figure in Gotham. It was something that we wanted to add, rather than just use a random gang. It felt like sort of a nod to a legacy and things that may yet occur. I think it's very interesting that Bane is gone right now. Of course, with this being comics he may come back, but I find it interesting that even in his passing, he still has a strong presence in Gotham.
CBR: I noticed that the first issue explores the themes of vulnerability and identity that are present in your other work, but there's also a sense of loss, as well as the slightest tinge of hope. Was this intentional? And do you find it difficult balancing such complex emotions in your stories?
Ridley: Gotham City is tough. The most well-known story of the city started with the most horrific act that could happen to a person, the murder of their parents in front of them as a child. The Joker is one the most diabolical criminals in the world, and Batman operates at night, becoming more and more of a contrast to Superman with each passing day. People expect top storytelling in the Bat-Universe, but at the same time, it's morose, heavy, and dour, and I don't want to just traffic in more heaviness. One of the things I try to do is infuse a bit of levity without making it seem someone's telling a joke just for the sake of telling a joke, because that just feels wrong. It's like showing up at a funeral and doing a comedy set.
At the same time, you don't want everything to be monotonous. It's really important for these stories to have a little bit of uplift. It's equally important to ensure that these moments are character-driven, and that whatever line is being delivered matches both the character and the emotional of the moment. Batman hardly ever jokes, whereas Robin has always been a bit more lighthearted. The thing for me is really understanding these characters, and then making sure there's consistency every step of the way.
CBR: How much of the spotlight will Luke Fox's Batwing receive?
Ridley: I would say that there is a balance among all of the family, other than Tim, obviously, considering that this is largely his story. We're going to see Tim/Jace the most, but we're also going to see Luke, we're also going to see Tiff, Tam, Tanya, and Lucius - although he won't be around as much, mostly because he shows up in a lot of other places, and people are more familiar with him. We're going to see a lot of the Fox family, we're going to see Renee, and we're going to see a few new characters. We'll also see some old friends.
CBR: Are there any teasers you give about what's coming up in the series? And can we expect to see any other members of the bat family?
Ridley: No and yes. That's about what I can tell you. I can't really give away too many teasers. And plus, I really have enjoyed writing this, and I want there to be some surprises in store. I think there's some pretty good ones coming up. To the second part of the question, yes, other members of the Bat-Family will be showing up for reasons related to the overall story.
The Next Batman: Second Son by John Ridley, Tony Akins, Travel Foreman, Mark Morales, Rex Lokus and Andworld Design is available in comic shops on April 6.