This is "From a Different Point of View," a feature where I discuss a comic book series with another writer. In this case, it is CBR's own Eileen Gonzalez who will be going over the history of the Avengers with me, story by story!

We continue with Avengers #50, "To Tame a Titan!" by Roy Thomas and John Buscema

Brian Cronin: The big five-oh.

Brian Cronin: We discussed earlier about whether 50 issues was even a big deal back then.

Eileen Gonzalez: Yes, and it seems like the attitude was a bit spotty. Fantastic Four made a big deal of it, while The Avengers don't even receive acknowledgement of the milestone.

Brian Cronin: What's interesting is that Amazing Spider-Man ALSO had just made a big deal about their 50th issue.

Brian Cronin: With Peter Parker quitting as Spider-Man and throwing his costume into the trash.

Brian Cronin: One of the rare comic books that has both an iconic cover and an iconic panel within the same issue that is different from the cover.

Brian Cronin: As Peter walking away from the trash can is probably the more iconic image, even though he's also walking away on the cover, just sans trash can.

Brian Cronin: Warren Publishing was the first company to officially celebrate a 50th issue, with Marvel close behind with 1977's Defenders #50.

Brian Cronin: I wrote about it awhile back.

Brian Cronin: So it'd be another decade before companies settled on "Oh, I guess we need to celebrate this issue."

Brian Cronin: Obviously, though, they went with "Nah" when asking whether to use this issue to celebrate.

Brian Cronin: As the Avengers vs. Typhon surely isn't a bad story.

Brian Cronin: But nor does it particularly stand out very much.

Eileen Gonzalez: It's just weird that all these other characters were getting special 50th issues, while the Avengers are floundering. They have been really depleted the last few issues. There's only, what, three members left?

Brian Cronin: Three members, but they're looking to get back with their fourth in this issue!

Eileen Gonzalez: And Wanda and Pietro's heads are still floating in the corner of the cover, so I guess we haven't given up on them yet

Brian Cronin: One thing that I'd be fascinated to learn is why Roy Thomas stuck with such a tiny lineup for the next...15 or so issues.

Brian Cronin: That's about a year's worth of stories told with roughly a 4-5 man team, right?

Brian Cronin: Hmmm...I guess five members isn't THAT small.

Brian Cronin: It's really just until Vision joins that the team is way too small.

Eileen Gonzalez: Compared to other Avengers line-ups, it's positively minuscule! But maybe Thomas wanted to concentrate on fewer characters, or he had faith in the strength of the remaining members' personalities.

Brian Cronin: But don't worry, there could be literally two members on the team and the issue would still start with those two members fighting with each other.

Brian Cronin: As this issue opens with Hawkeye and Goliath/Ant-Man going at it again.

Eileen Gonzalez: Two is all you need! Especially if they're Hank and Clint.

Brian Cronin: "Now that you can't grow, you can only control an army of ants! That's nothing! I have a bow and arrow!"

Eileen Gonzalez: "And my lingering angst over Black Widow!"

Eileen Gonzalez: I forgot Natasha existed, actually.

Eileen Gonzalez: I'm glad she went on vacation alone, after he yelled at her a few issues ago.

Brian Cronin: She's written out again via flashback

Brian Cronin: I swear, everything about her is done so haphazardly.

Brian Cronin: And yes, he deserves her going on a solo vacation for how poorly he treated her the other issue.

Brian Cronin: But it's still weird that we don't see her for two issues and then find out though a thought balloon that, oh yeah, she's gone.

Eileen Gonzalez: It's like they keep forgetting she was almost an Avenger and keep coming up with excuses to not let her in.

Eileen Gonzalez: Now would have been a perfect time for her to join, since they're so short of members, but oh well.

Brian Cronin: It helps, I guess, to explain why Hawkeye's even more crabby than normal.

Brian Cronin: It's so weird, though, that he's a guy who specifically joined the Avengers as a replacement for effectively the entire team.

Brian Cronin: Iron Man? Gone. Thor? Gone. Giant-Man? Gone. Wasp? Who cares, but gone, too.

Brian Cronin: But now roster upheaval is wrecking him.

Eileen Gonzalez: He's never been on the other side of it before and doesn't know how to deal with it.

Brian Cronin: Yeah, actually, that's a fair point.

Eileen Gonzalez: Meanwhile, Hank and Jan have weathered this storm and are like "eh."

Brian Cronin: Yeah.

Brian Cronin: Speaking of "eh,"

Brian Cronin: Wasp's reaction to them being able to help Hercules was basically, "Eh, I don't see how, but okay."

Eileen Gonzalez: She's too busy planning her wedding.

Brian Cronin: Yeah. It's funny, that's both a great drawn panel by Buscema...

Brian Cronin: and a super iffy take on the Wasp.

Brian Cronin: Boy, they really took flighty to a whole new level with her over the years, didn't they?

Eileen Gonzalez: Her thoughts there make so little sense! She's always been the one pushing Hank to be an Avengers when he doesn't really want to, and now she doesn't care if the team dissolves? ????

Brian Cronin: But also her lack of urgency over Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver seemingly turning evil again.

Brian Cronin: I'd love a What If...? done of "What if Silver Age Wasp had become Spider-Woman?"

Brian Cronin: "Oh good, now that Uncle Ben is dead, Aunt May and I can move into a nice apartment in the city."

Eileen Gonzalez: Ha! With great power comes great fashion opportunities. Or something.

Eileen Gonzalez: I like how they decide to go after Hercules almost as an afterthought, just because they need a distraction from the Maximoff situation.

Brian Cronin: Well, from what they heard of his mission, it wasn't something that should have put him into danger.

Brian Cronin: He was just trying to get his dad to get him released from his exile.

Eileen Gonzalez: True.

Brian Cronin: "By the hammering hooves of Chiron!"

Brian Cronin: Hercules is like that person who keeps trying to make "Fetch" happen.

Brian Cronin: I like the twist that Typhon did not kill anyone, but rather just transported them somewhere nasty.

Eileen Gonzalez: I am not surprised that the second we meet Zeus he is being a jerk.

Eileen Gonzalez: Yes, let's just accuse your son of being a traitor for no reason, shall we?

Eileen Gonzalez: From what we've seen of Herc, I don't think he'd be smart enough to betray Olympus, to be honest.

Brian Cronin: I love that the design for Zeus is a big redhaired beard guy.

Brian Cronin: I wonder how Kirby came up with that.

Brian Cronin: That can't be from the actual Greek myths, right?

Eileen Gonzalez: He definitely had a lot of hair and a beard, but I can't remember the hair color.

Eileen Gonzalez: Kirby might have just wanted something bright to stand out.

Eileen Gonzalez: Interesting loophole about how Herc's human half allows him to leave limbo, but given how much the Greek gods got around, you'd think there'd be other demigods available to go back with Herc and help him out.

Brian Cronin: Yeah, some half-god/half-duck out there, at least.

Brian Cronin: How has that never been a thing? Zeus having sex with some swan and then having it become a demi-god.

Eileen Gonzalez: You could populate a whole superteam with Zeus' weird offspring!

Brian Cronin: That was kind of sort of the plot of Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang's Wonder Woman.

Eileen Gonzalez: Ah, true!

Brian Cronin: As Wonder Woman was revealed to be Zeus' kid, so she put together other children of Zeus to protect his latest offspring.

Brian Cronin: But yes, it was a cool idea to use Hercules' half-human side to sneak through the banishment spell.

Brian Cronin: We didn't know that Typhon had the Promethean fire inside his ax, did we?

Eileen Gonzalez: I don't think so? I think we just saw him destroying the flame with it.

Eileen Gonzalez: Man, is there anything that flame can't do? It keeps the gods alive, destroys ships...

Brian Cronin: That destroyer scene struck me as Buscema saying, "Oh, now THIS I'm interested in drawing."

Brian Cronin: He did such an amazing job with the destroyer stuff.

Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, it does look nice. I kind of got the same sense with Hercules wrestling that monster earlier.

Brian Cronin: Yeah, this is more Buscema's scene.

Brian Cronin: And less superhroes.

Brian Cronin: Heck, maybe that's why Thomas kept the membership low!

Brian Cronin: So Buscema didn't have to draw too many superheroes!

Brian Cronin: Few things sum Hawkeye up better than him telling Goliath/Ant-Man to stop acting like he's a moron and then hooking his arrow up to a giant god and getting pulled to the ground for his troubles.

Brian Cronin: "You act like I'm a moron!" {proceeds to then do something stupid}

Brian Cronin: Then Ant-Man/Goliath attacks with his far less impressive than being good at archey abilities.

Eileen Gonzalez: This whole team is in way over their heads.

Eileen Gonzalez: They're so lucky Hercules pops up to save them.

Brian Cronin: Yeah, and he shows up with the Avengers trademark.

Brian Cronin: "Avengers Assemble...to watch me fight this guy one-on-one!"

Eileen Gonzalez: At least he has an excuse for that for once: the others have already proven they're not up to fighting immortals.

Brian Cronin: True, but Typhon brings up an interesting point

Brian Cronin: Which is, how can a DEMI-god take him down in a one-on-one fight?

Brian Cronin: Once he's buried, how good is that panel of Hank shouting at Hawkeye to fire his arrow?

Eileen Gonzalez: Oh, I love that! It looks so exciting and yet they're just standing there!

Eileen Gonzalez: So much urgency in their poses

Eileen Gonzalez: And then when Herc recovers and he defeats Typhon with a move he learned from Captain America? Nice. I guess they must have done team training at some point after all.

Brian Cronin: One of the thing that Marvel has stressed since the Marvel Age began in Fantastic Four #1

Brian Cronin: Is that Judo is the greatest thing ever.

Brian Cronin: Almost every Marvel hero is proficient in it

Brian Cronin: And Cap seems to teach it to everyone.

Brian Cronin: And it has almost preternatural abilities.

Brian Cronin: It reminds me of how Lois Lane learned a Kryptonian martial art once.

Brian Cronin: And in the comics, they'd just have her KO-ing people left and right with a flick of the wrist.

Brian Cronin: That's what Judo is like in the Marvel Universe.

Brian Cronin: So when you have a demi-god using it, watch out!

Eileen Gonzalez: I guess judo really keys you up too, because Herc is just losing it all over the unconscious Typhon there

Eileen Gonzalez: Hawkeye of all people has to tell him to cool it.

Brian Cronin: Buscema is doing a great job with Hercules' reaction.

Brian Cronin: He is LOSING it.

Eileen Gonzalez: Herc has read his Swift, I see. "Brobdingnagian," indeed.

Brian Cronin: It's weird that Hank automatically assumes that this means Hercules is leaving the Avengers, and somehow he's RIGHT.

Eileen Gonzalez: Especially because, as it just occurred to me, the Avengers have no clue who Typhon is or what's going on. As far as they know, he's just some dude who showed up to blast a Destroyer. They know nothing of the Greek gods' disappearance, etc.

Eileen Gonzalez: Maybe Hank got ESP powers off-panel to replace his size-changing.

Brian Cronin: Oh, those antennae he built!

Brian Cronin: Maybe they do take in ESP!

Brian Cronin: It's such a weird farewell to Hercules, because he looks so miserable while chilling with his dad

Brian Cronin: And he also looks like he's in such a minor position.

Brian Cronin: Like he's his dad's sidekick.

Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, I'm not sure I buy this. Maybe if they'd spent more time on Hercules' quests and thoughts instead of the Magneto stuff, this would feel appropriate.

Brian Cronin: Speaking of the various subplots, what's fascinating is that we see Thomas sort of run out of subplots, right?

Brian Cronin: When this issue ends, there's really no cliffhanger.

Brian Cronin: A general, "Well, we'll eventually get to the bottom of the Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver thing"

Brian Cronin: But no, "We're going to get this done NOW!"

Brian Cronin: It's surprising.

Brian Cronin: Thomas has been moving from story to story for quite a while now, with few breathers in between

Brian Cronin: And now we reach an issue's end that is truly like a "The End."

Eileen Gonzalez: As I recall, the next issue is one of those weird one-off stories. Maybe he really did need a quick break from all the interlocking subplots.

Brian Cronin: Wonder Warthog, by the way, was a popular underground comic of the era.

Brian Cronin: A Superman sendoff.

Eileen Gonzalez: Ah, I wondered if that was a real thing or if Hawkeye was being sarcastic.

Eileen Gonzalez: Both, it seems.

Brian Cronin: I love how Hawkeye just gets into these poses.

Brian Cronin: Putting his leg up on stuff and pontificating.

Eileen Gonzalez: He likes being dramatic.

Eileen Gonzalez: Which would explain his dialogue in the last panel.

Eileen Gonzalez: This issue felt so empty compared to the frantic pace of the last few. I mean, stuff was happening, but it was only one plot as opposed to three.

Brian Cronin: Also, a bunch of pages were just Hercules fighting Typhon.

Brian Cronin: Then a break when the Avengers help out and then a bunch more pages of Hercules fighting Typhon.

Brian Cronin: And it's not like we give a hoot about Typhon, ya know?

Brian Cronin: But, next issue is noted to be a "gasser," so I'm optimistic for #51!

Eileen Gonzalez: Oh, next issue is definitely one to remember!

Brian Cronin: They definitely also made me feel good by calling me "hallowed one."

Brian Cronin: Flattery will get you everywhere, Marvel!