This is "From a Different Point of View," a feature where I discuss a comic book series with another writer. In this case, it is CBR's own Eileen Gonzalez who will be going over the history of the Avengers with me, story by story! We continue with Avengers #7 "Their Darkest Hour," by Jack Kirby, Stan Lee and Chic StoneEileen Gonzalez: Did you see the question someone asked on Twitter?
Brian Cronin: Stan Goldberg was Marvel's colorist back then and he would often color the word balloons different colors. I think it was just for dramatic effect, as there doesn't seem to be a ton of consistency in who gets the colored balloons. He started doing it on covers during the Atlas days. Pretty soon after this point (around 1964), Goldberg stopped being the main colorist, with Marie Severin and George Roussos moving in to take the gig. This was because Goldberg took over all of Dan DeCarlo's humor gigs when DeCarlo went to Archie Comics full-time. Goldberg, of course, eventually followed DeCarlo to Archie.
Eileen Gonzalez: You really are a bottomless pit of information. Thanks!
Brian Cronin: As to the issue, "The Darkest Hour," really over-selling it a bit there with the title, huh? Also, a rare instance of an inker inking Kirby in back to back issues!
Eileen Gonzalez: I should think chasing off the Hulk was their darkest hour, but what do I know? Also, Zemo really got a downgrade. Now he's DR. instead of BARON.
Brian Cronin: He didn't spend five years in mad scientist school to not be called a doctor!
Eileen Gonzalez: Some doctor, who doesn't even think of trying to find a solvent for Adhesive X.
Brian Cronin: Even after he specifically sends his guy out there to look for solutions for Adhesive X! This issue opens up with the very first court martial in Avengers history! The Avengers ridiculously put Iron Man on trial for not answering his Avengers signal while he is in the middle of a personal issue.
Eileen Gonzalez: Ah, but they don't care about each others' personal issues. That's part of their rules--don't be nosy. If you have a problem, that's on YOU. Rick at least seems a little concerned. Wasp, not so much.
Brian Cronin: What's funny is that when the issue came up in Tales of Suspense #56 (which they refer to here as Iron Man #56) they just blow it off like it's no big deal
Eileen Gonzalez: Continuity? What's that?
Brian Cronin:
I wonder what their other matter was? I love how impatient Thor was.
Eileen Gonzalez: Maybe they were going to a movie.
Brian Cronin: It's almost as if Kirby and Lee just worked in the reference to Iron Man #56 less as a continuity piece and more to help sell another comic book.
Eileen Gonzalez: Ha, yeah, that's probably it! Synergy!
Brian Cronin: Their punishment is hilarious. Because it's like, "If we're fighting some bad guys, you can't help, because you're suspended!"
Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, they basically just ground him like he's a naughty kid who hit a baseball through their window. And of course that decision comes back to bite them immediately.
Brian Cronin: "My baby!" "Sorry, ma'am, we're busy and while Iron Man is just down the block, he's not allowed to work with us for a week. We'll be sure to send flowers for his funeral, though."
Eileen Gonzalez: Ha!
Brian Cronin: "Courtesy of our benefactor, Tony Stark, who you can always rely on, unlike Iron Man."
Eileen Gonzalez: Thor sure seems dramatic about this whole thing, talking about how "painful" the decision is. Like... he's just suspended for a week. It's not THAT bad.
Brian Cronin: This means he is missing Avengers move night, though. So it's a big deal. They're seeing Minions this week.
Eileen Gonzalez: Nooo!
Brian Cronin:See? Painful!
Eileen Gonzalez: Iron Man will sure think twice about having a personal crisis next time!
Page 2: [valnet-url-page page=2 paginated=0 text='Enter the Enchantress!']
Brian Cronin: We noted back in issue #1 how it seemed like Kirby would have preferred to just write Thor if he could. And so again, this issue is essentially a Thor extension story by bringing in two Thor villains hot off of their appearance in Thor's title.
Eileen Gonzalez: Yup--the Avengers' first villain was from Asgard (Loki) and now we're dipping back into that well for the Enchantress and the Executioner. I do think the parallel in those panels with Thor and Odin in similar poses is interesting. I assume Kirby intended that as a compliment to Thor, comparing him to his father, but Odin is kind of a jerk, so I'm not sure how well that parallel has aged.
Brian Cronin: By the way, speaking of Zemo. We noted that they made it seem like he was an old school villain when he introduced. My pal Ben Herman noted on Facebook that Zemo was jointly introduced in Avengers #6 AND Sgt. Fury #8. Where Zemo is shown during World War II. So they were really going all in on Zemo.
Eileen Gonzalez: Huh! That's really interesting. I guess they thought the dude with the purple bag on his head was destined to become a major baddie.
And they were right.
Brian Cronin: Always bet on purple.
Brian Cronin:I believe that's how the saying goes.
Brian Cronin: Enchantress and Executioner arrive on Earth. And, of course, they are automatically presumed to be advertising something. The cynical, cynical citizens of the Marvel Universe.
Eileen Gonzalez: I really want to know what a day in the life of a Marvel Universe marketer looks like. If superheroes/villains are always being mistaken for advertising stunts, what do the ACTUAL ads look like?
Brian Cronin: Right? They must be INSANE, Hence my article, "Advertisements in the Marvel Universe Must Be AMAZING"
Eileen Gonzalez: There's a TV series in here somewhere. Like Powerless, but with marketers.
Brian Cronin: "I don't even believe that there IS a Spider-Man." We have Spider-Man birthers in the Marvel Universe.
Eileen Gonzalez: And I bet their internet is flooded with conspiracy theory websites about just that! Show us your birth certificate, Spidey! Prove you're not actually a thousand spiders in a leotard!
Brian Cronin: What's fascinating is when the Executioner then makes everyone run around him. Kirby draws him emitting energy but then Lee says that it is his glance that made people run. Weird choice there.
Eileen Gonzalez: The energy is his BO. He didn't get a chance to shower before being banished from Asgard.
Eileen Gonzalez: Honestly, I was mostly staring at the design on Enchantress' boots. That really is something. Kirby sure did love his bold, eye-catching designs.
Brian Cronin: What's amazing about Kirby's designs is that they are striking while also super simple designs. So other artists have always been able to replicate them well.It's like he HINTS at ornateness without actually being ornate.
Eileen Gonzalez: That especially shows in the fancy helmets he gives everyone. They're so distinct.
Brian Cronin: The Kirby headdress is truly one of a kind.
Brian Cronin: Our favorite newspaper returns!
Brian Cronin: The Daily Exposition.
Eileen Gonzalez: The most popular newspaper in the Marvel Universe
Brian Cronin: "The entire story on the cover, Guaranteed."
Page 3: [valnet-url-page page=3 paginated=0 text='Cap and Rick Jones get weird!']
Brian Cronin: After Cap beats the heck out of a bunch of wrestlers, we get one of the oddest scenes in the early Avengers comics, which is saying a lot. Rick goes through Cap's closet and finds Bucky's costume. Just think about how little sense that sentence makes.
Eileen Gonzalez: There is soooo much wrong with this scene. Like, Rick. Buddy. Pal. You didn't predict that rummaging through your friend's closet and putting on his dead friend's clothes without permission would UPSET CAP SOMEHOW? Boundaries, man! Come on!
Brian Cronin: Exactly. But also, why does Cap have Bucky's costume in his closet?
Eileen Gonzalez: Good question! Maybe a museum had a spare costume and gave it back to him when he returned? Or Cap just sat in the dark for nights on end, sewing a replica Bucky costume as a memorial to his dead pal...And then in a later issue they recreate this scene, except they act like Cap is in the wrong somehow, and he ends up allowing Rick to be the new Bucky. The whole thing is so weird.
Brian Cronin: While Rick is a weirdo, it is fair to note that just last issue, Cap's whole plan involved sending Rick and Rick's untrained teenage buddies on basically a commando mission. Which they pulled off. So I could see how Rick would be like, "What do you mean you can't live with me being in danger?" It doesn't excuse going into a guy's closest to throw on a replica costume he sewed in his spare time.
Eileen Gonzalez: Very true. Rick deserved better in that regard. Cap really did lead him on in those days, so to speak.
Brian Cronin: But it is understandable to be irked at Cap for that aspect of it all.
Eileen Gonzalez: One second Cap would be treating him almost like a sidekick, and the next moment he's saying that Rick will never be his sidekick. I think Cap needs some therapy, to be honest.
Brian Cronin: HE TOTALLY needs therapy. He is a total wreck and everyone's just cool with it. We haven't even gotten to the issue where he attacks thin air, right?
Eileen Gonzalez: I don't think so? Unfortunately, that's a recurring theme in this series. An Avenger will show signs of being in mental distress and everyone just goes "NO PRYING!"
Brian Cronin: Except when their personal issues mean they miss their important meetings. Then it's suspension time!
Eileen Gonzalez: I kind of want a comic that's nothing but the Avengers in group therapy sessions now.
Brian Cronin: Give it time!
Brian Cronin:I love the idea that when the spectral forms of Enchantress and Executioner show up, Zemo automatically assumes they're, like, ghosts, there to steal his treasure.
Eileen Gonzalez: I guess I'd be paranoid, too, if I was sitting on that much money. But what would a ghost do with money anyway? On the other hand, he sure does agree to team up with them in a hurry. You don't even know these people, Zemo!
Brian Cronin: He's an old man with a purple mask stuck on his head, what does he have to lose?
Eileen Gonzalez: Ha! True.
Brian Cronin: I love how Black Knight is such a loser that he doesn't even get namechecked by Zemo when he describes his earlier Masters of Evil. Even Zemo knows that he was scraping the bottom of the barrel there. "I know, I'll get Black Knight to fight...Thor? Ugh, I guess so."
Eileen Gonzalez: I assumed that meant the Black Knight wasn't in jail like the other two were, but it makes more sense that he's just that much of a loser than even Zemo wants nothing to do with him.
Brian Cronin: "The police didn't even bother to arrest him."
Eileen Gonzalez: Ha! I accept that explanation.
Eileen Gonzalez: Side note: May I just say how annoying it is that both Wasp and Enchantress, the only two recurring female characters at this point, are motivated purely because they want some guy to pay attention to them? We have all these men running around who want to fight for or against justice or whatever, and then you've got the women who are just like "I'm doing this solely so that hot dude will pay attention to me."
Brian Cronin: Oh man, I totally meant to note that Enchantress' thought balloons sound just like Wasp's!
Eileen Gonzalez: You're better than this, ladies!
Brian Cronin: It feels like Hank and Jan are going on trips every issue, right?
Eileen Gonzalez: Well they try to, anyway!
Brian Cronin: I adore Cap not approving of Rick making the SLIGHTEST joke about Thor.
Eileen Gonzalez: Cap is a real party pooper this issue!
Brian Cronin: "How dare you, Rick! I'll have you know that Thor doesn't even compare prices online! He just accepts whatever the airlines tell him to pay!"
Eileen Gonzalez: First Rick can't snoop in his closet, now he can't make fun of Thor. What's next? No leaving dishes in the sink without rinsing them?
Brian Cronin: "Nooooo! The dishes!!!!!!! ZEMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Eileen Gonzalez: Why is the Executioner's fake name Hans Grubervelt? This is just getting weird. Were the Die Hard writers big comic book fans or something?
Brian Cronin: Right? And the weird thing is that the guy he is impersonating HAS a name. And it is similar, but different. Franz Gruber
Eileen Gonzalez: Did Stan Lee forget the guy's exact name and make something up on the fly?
Brian Cronin: Also, why would Zemo's second in command, in 1964, automatically be a Nazi war criminal? I don't believe Gruber actually WAS a Nazi. He was just a mercenary jerk.
Eileen Gonzalez: If you work with a Nazi war criminal, you ARE a Nazi war criminal. So says Captain America.
Brian Cronin: Interesting philosophy, too, by Stan Lee through Rick Jones' dialogue. "You can't punch guys just because they were Nazis."
Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, I definitely thought that was head-tilting, given that Cap was literally invented to punch Nazis.
Page 4: [valnet-url-page page=4 paginated=0 text='Kirby draws some excellent demon-looking Avengers!']
Brian Cronin: How awesome is Kirby's imagery of the twisted versions of the Avengers? That's totally going to be the featured image for this week.
Eileen Gonzalez: Yes! I'm so glad you brought that up. It's an amazing image. By far the highlight of the issue.
Brian Cronin: Doesn't it seem weird, though, that the Enchantress is able to subdue Thor so easily?
It's like, why is there even a fight this issue? When the Enchantress can seemingly control Thor any time she wants?
Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, I can understand she wouldn't outright kill him, given she's in love with him, but it seems weird that she doesn't just make him fall in love with her or something. Perhaps she wanted to get Thor's friends out of the way first so they wouldn't try to free Thor from her influence? I like her outfit, though.
Brian Cronin: As Lee notes, she IS exquisite. It's issue #7 and the Avengers have fought against each other in, what, 4 of the 7 issues if you count the fight when Cap wakes up from suspended animation?
Eileen Gonzalez: Huh, you're right. Maybe Civil War didn't come out of nowhere after all. It's a storied Avengers tradition for them to beat the crud out of each other.
Brian Cronin: And never trust each other! It makes me think about the framework of Millar's Ultimates. It's surprisingly similar to the Lee/Kirby Avengers issues.
Eileen Gonzalez: I guess Ultimates wasn't as much of an AU as I thought!
Brian Cronin: I know he co-created him, but dang, Kirby seems just BORN to draw Cap in action. SUCH good action sequences, even if the dialogue leaves much to be desired "I'm not going to be beaten by some aborigine."
Ooph, Cap, ooph.
Eileen Gonzalez: Both of Cap's fight scenes are gorgeous. I'll just look past that dialogue and let the pictures tell the story. With Thor, I'm wondering why Thor bothered to call Hank and Jan back? Wouldn't it have been faster to fly after them? He knew where they were going, didn't he?
Brian Cronin: I guess NYC is sort of his home turf by this point? Note that he uses the buildings to attack Giant Man
Eileen Gonzalez: True!
Brian Cronin: So perhaps he believed that the more open structure of Cape Cod would put him at a disadvantage against Giant Man?
Eileen Gonzalez: Works for me!
Brian Cronin: Also, Thor's plan is to attack them in their jet-copter, so that would require them to come home.
Brian Cronin:We get to see Iron Man chilling with his chestplate plugged in while he is smoking a cigarette again. It's such a hilariously stupid image.
Eileen Gonzalez: Imagine how bad the inside of the armor must smell if he's smoking all the time. At least now there's an explanation for the mouth slit: it's so he can smoke in the armor!
Brian Cronin: He dares to risk challenging Avengers bureaucracy to help his friends. Bold!
Eileen Gonzalez: Good thing, too, because Wasp is basically useless yet again. How long did it take her to get her stingers, anyway?
Brian Cronin: Not too much longer, but they're initially hopelessly weak. Think Tom Hanks' pistol against the tank in Saving Private Ryan
Eileen Gonzalez: Sheesh. Why even give her stingers, then?
Brian Cronin: Well, they work against low-level villains. I once did a list about the Wasp's most impressive victories and...yikes. Not very impressive. However, what early success she had involved using her stingers on normal humans
Eileen Gonzalez: She lost to a sparrow once, so I can just imagine the kinds of "victories" she had back in the day.
Brian Cronin: Hey, she sort of kind of distracted Thor briefly!
Eileen Gonzalez: Thor must really be having an off day if a "bug" was able to bother him!
Brian Cronin: I love Executioner's laid back outfit.
Eileen Gonzalez: It's very... monochromatic.
Brian Cronin: Jeans and a sweater. He is down to party.
Eileen Gonzalez: I'm sure he and Enchantress would be a blast at parties.
Brian Cronin: Cap gets more awesome action scenes with him and Zemo, but in the end, it comes down to Thor just pulling a power out of nowhere
Eileen Gonzalez: As always!
Brian Cronin: And just ending everything by sending them through a space warp WHERE HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THEY END UP. How insane is that?
Eileen Gonzalez: Insane and irresponsible! They could just end up conquering wherever they end up, but hey, that's not Thor's problem.
Brian Cronin: I once did a bit about Spider-Man "saving the day" by throwing a bomb through a dimensional rift. They later revealed the damage that happened to the dimension Spider-Man essentially just attacked out of nowhere.
Eileen Gonzalez: Wow, Spidey, not cool.
Brian Cronin: The issue ends on one of those awesome freeze frame bits from 1970s TV shows. Cap just pumping his fist like a moron. "Avengers, YEAH!"
Eileen Gonzalez: It's better than Iron Man's pose. He looks like he wasn't expecting to get his picture taken and froze up. Or like he's going to have a showdown and is preparing to reach for his invisible guns.
Brian Cronin: Get this, the letters column mentioned that they planned to have Hulk guest star in the issue originally. That wouldn't have fit at ALL.
Eileen Gonzalez: More Hulk?!
Brian Cronin: They then said that they couldn't fit him in, but he is now having his own feature and they'll try to bring him back to the Avengers. They did not. I can't even imagine how the Hulk would have been worked into this issue.
Eileen Gonzalez: All I know is that he and the Avengers would have ended up fighting each other.
Brian Cronin: And someone would have shouted, "What kind of advertising stunt is this?"
Eileen Gonzalez: We should write our own Silver Age Avengers comics. We have clearly cracked the formula.
Brian Cronin: ZEMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!