Kang Is Here to Conquer the Earth...And He Is So Chill About It!

This is "From a Different Point of View," a feature where I discuss a comic book series with another writer. In this case, it is CBR's own Eileen Gonzalez who will be going over the history of the Avengers with me, story by story! We continue with Avengers #8 "Kang the Conqueror" by Jack Kirby, Stan Lee and Dick AyersBrian Cronin: Yet another inker change for the King!Eileen Gonzalez: That's the last one, if I remember correctly. Don't we get a new artist starting next issue?Brian Cronin: Yep. But Kirby returns briefly later. But yeah, we're about to get all Don Heck up in this business.Eileen Gonzalez: I like Don Heck, but he ain't no Jack Kirby.Brian Cronin: The story of Don Heck's comic career, sadly. "You ain't no Jack Kirby!" Eileen Gonzalez: Well, now I just feel bad for making the comparison!Brian Cronin: It's kind of hard not to, ya know? We've been speaking about the tragedy of the Hulk's life and how it really is pretty much unavoidable and, on a MUCH SMALLER SCALE, that was the same thing with Heck. How do you avoid being compared to the guy they keep having you follow on books?Eileen Gonzalez: Very true.Brian Cronin: Heck's an excellent artist, but, well, he ain't no Jack Kirby.Eileen Gonzalez: Just his bad luck he kept getting put on books Kirby used to work on, I guess.Brian Cronin: Exactly. If Kirby wasn't around, Heck would be much better remembered. As we'll see when we get to his issues.Now, opening page, is that a sort of shot at Dick Ayers? Or perhaps a backhanded compliment? "Stan is like Victor Hugo, Kirby is like Rembrant, Ayers is like an automation."?Eileen Gonzalez: I did think that was weird! Mostly I was giggling at Stan comparing himself to Victor Hugo. I haven't read any Hugo, but somehow that doesn't seem quite right. Wasn't Hugo known for the most depressing books imaginable? Just a weird classic author for him to pick.Brian Cronin: I think he likely saw Hugo's figures as sort of the ideal that Marvel heroes strive for, in terms of inner strife and stuff like that.Jean Valjean, for instance, sort of has a Marvel-esque tragic origin. Eileen Gonzalez: Hm, that's a good point! Here I was thinking he picked those names out of a hat, but he may very well have put real thought into it. Still not sure what the thought process was behind comparing Ayers to automation...Brian Cronin: I THINK that he is saying that Ayers works so fast that he is like a machine. So it's meant as a compliment. But when you call yourself Victor Hugo and Kirby Rembrant, it sounds weird when you're then like, "Oh, and Ayers? He...does a lot of work. That's something!"Eileen Gonzalez: Even Sam Rosen got compared to an actual person.Brian Cronin: True, but a peer, which is also a bit of a dis, right?Eileen Gonzalez: "Your coworker is busy today, come over here and cover for him."Brian Cronin: Like a backhanded compliment, as it is really more praise for Simek than it is for Rosen.Eileen Gonzalez: True.Brian Cronin: I love that they just rotate leaders. It's such a dumb idea. "It's Democratic." Is "rotating leaders" actually even "Democratic"?Eileen Gonzalez: You'd think Cap would have a better understanding of how democracy works. Electing a leader IS democratic, I thought, not just passing the gavel around!Brian Cronin: Exactly!Eileen Gonzalez: Also, check out Iron Man watching the Wasp give an autograph. He's jealous no one asked for his.Brian Cronin: Really nice touch by Kirby. We're going to miss him on this book. There's another moment later with Kang that I don't think any other artist of the era could have pulled off.Why do they have a two-seater on their conference table?Eileen Gonzalez: For the love bugs of course!Brian Cronin: Also, I dig that Rick Jones is privy to all this classified information. "Put the scrambler on! We don't want government secrets to get out! But we can trust this teenager who has a literal network of teenagers spreading information around the country!" That's sort of what Nick Spencer later did with Rick in his Hydra-Cap stuff, playing off of Rick's early stories to specifically have him be a whistleblower. I thought that that was clever of Spencer.Eileen Gonzalez: You'd think they'd be more wary of Rick, given his known association with the Hulk.Brian Cronin: Yeah, I was just about to add that point! "Oh, the kid who lied to us constantly to protect the Hulk? Tell him all of our secrets!"

Page 2: [valnet-url-page page=2 paginated=0 text='Conquering the world and being chill about it!']

Brian Cronin: After some generic exposition stuff, we get to actually meet Kang and that's the panel that I was talking about. Few other artists could nail the "lounging Kang" look. Few would even think to DO it. And it's PERFECT.

Eileen Gonzalez: Ha, I do love that panel! So casual as he's taking over the world.

Brian Cronin: It just nails his personality so much in one panel.

Eileen Gonzalez: And he's fiddling around with some gadget as he waits, bored.

Brian Cronin: So darn good.

Eileen Gonzalez: Must be why Wasp develops a crush on him there.

Brian Cronin: That was one of the more "Ooph" dialogue from Wasp that we've seen recently.

Eileen Gonzalez: Like. Why. Could Stan Lee really not think of ANYTHING else for her to say?

Brian Cronin: It really is weird how his portrayal of her is this ditzy super horny lady. That's one of the best things about Roy Thomas' run, as he gives her more of an actual personality. He doesn't even spend that much time on her, all things considered. But even the little time he spends on her gives her SOMEthing.

Eileen Gonzalez: And not a moment too soon! And it paved the way for her to become the Avengers' leader (the real, actual, elected leader) in the '80s, too.

Brian Cronin: Oh yeah. Shooter and Michelinie really established her personality. Then Stern developed it so much that she became a great character.

Eileen Gonzalez: As annoying as early Wasp is, it's pretty cool to watch her evolve over the years.

Brian Cronin: A fun thought experiment is to read an early Wasp Avengers issue and then read a Stern-penned Wasp Avengers issue. It's like night and day.

Yeah, it's good, but, well, where else was she going to go? There was nowhere to go BUT up.

Eileen Gonzalez: Speaking of up, that's where the Avengers are headed, too, it looks like! Kang and his gadgets...

Brian Cronin: Kang's bit with Thor's hammer was really awesome. It's interesting that we're just eight issues in and yet Marvel's continuity was already getting pretty complicated.

As Kang's introduction references two different Fantastic Four issues. You know things are getting complicated when a word balloon has multiple asterisks in it!

Eileen Gonzalez: It's always important to cite your sources!

Brian Cronin: Or you can just run one of my articles through paraphrasing software and run it as your own!

Eileen Gonzalez: Even better!

Eileen Gonzalez: One thing that's bugging me about Kang, and I don't know if this has an actual answer: in the flashback when he's Rama-Tut, his skin is brown. But in the present day, you can tell he's very pale behind the mask. Does time travel change your skin color or was he wearing blackface in his pharaoh days?

Brian Cronin: Great question. I have no idea. It was the desert, maybe he had a really dark tan?

Eileen Gonzalez: We'll go with that, haha

Brian Cronin: But really, it's probably just a screw-up.

Eileen Gonzalez: I'm digging his thigh-highs, though. The future has great fashion sense.

Brian Cronin: Kang's design is another great bit of Kirby awesomeness. It's just so OUT there. Which is obviously what he was going for with the design.

Eileen Gonzalez: It's like part astronaut and part pirate. I love it.

Brian Cronin: I like that description. That definitely is what it looks like.

Page 3: [valnet-url-page page=3 paginated=0 text='Wasp and some teenagers...about equal in the power department!']

Brian Cronin: The Under-Secretary has an oddly big role this issue, right?

Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah. I guess they needed SOME government muckety-muck in here, given the scale and gravity of what was happening. Does he ever show up again?

Brian Cronin: Let me look. I doubt it.And yet, it's Marvel, you would think someone would bring him back.

Eileen Gonzalez: Marvel: Let no character go unrecycled

Brian Cronin: I am going to say no, oddly enough. Huh, you'd think some writer would have thrown him into a meeting with White House officials or something.

Eileen Gonzalez: Maybe he got replaced after this issue because of his shoddy handling of the Kang situation.

Brian Cronin: Oh, in our latest "Deus ex machina" with Thor check-up. Kang's machines somehow turn him back into Don Blake for...reasons.

Magnets! How do they work?

Eileen Gonzalez: There sure are a lot of mysterious phenomena that mysteriously turn Thor into Don Blake! First the Lava Men, now this. Magnets work however we want them to.

Brian Cronin: "The effect of the electro-chemical reaction has caused me to revert to my mortal identity!" I can't stress how much I adore that sentence.

Eileen Gonzalez: All the pseudoscience in this issue is making my eyes cross.

Brian Cronin: And how Stan even tosses in "In some inexplicable way." "Hey, I said you couldn't explain it!"

Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, no one cares about Kang's shiny future science. Just get on to the punching!

Brian Cronin: It's pretty awesome that Rick and Wasp decide to split up duties.

"One of us has to attack Kang. The other one can go look for weapons." "I know, the superhero with superpowers goes to look for weapons, while I'll grab some teenagers to attack Kang." "Sounds logical."

Eileen Gonzalez: The Wasp is basically Lassie now. Just run and fetch while the kid in jeans does the work.

Brian Cronin: Granted, Wasp should know Hank's weapons better than Rick. And she can't, you know, beat a sparrow. So maybe it makes more sense than you'd think, but that just says more of how useless she is on the team.

Eileen Gonzalez: You'd think it'd be easier for her to sneak on board Kang's ship, given how small she can shrink, and that she can fly. But no, she'd probably mess that up too.

Brian Cronin: Heck, when she FINDS the weapon she even needs help bringing it back!

Eileen Gonzalez: Side note: I love the UN vote where that one dude agrees to help take out Kang by voting "righto." That seems real casual for the occasion.

Brian Cronin: I need a 12-issue maxiseries starring the Teen Brigade kid in the wide brim hat. He's on a commando mission. In a suit and a wide brim hat.

I would like to subscribe to his newsletter.

Eileen Gonzalez: He seems more interesting than Rick, to be honest.

Brian Cronin: It actually is interesting just how BLAND Rick is, right?

Eileen Gonzalez: I guess the creators were hoping his association with the Hulk would make him interesting.So far, the most interesting thing Rick has done is snoop in Cap's closet and put on Bucky's clothes, which is more "interesting" than interesting.

Brian Cronin: Ha! I legit was just about to hit enter on "The only interesting thing he's done so far is go into Cap's closet to dress up as his dead partner."

Eileen Gonzalez: Great minds, haha

Brian Cronin: I am glad Cap taught Rick some awesome commando lessons as "Hey, we'll be your slaves." "Sounds about right."

Eileen Gonzalez: Kang sure is gullible for a dictator from the future. I guess the kid with the hat was just that persuasive.

Brian Cronin: Well, we DID meet the guy just chilling on a forcefield couch. So maybe he just is that cocky.

Eileen Gonzalez: True.

Page 4: [valnet-url-page page=4 paginated=0 text='Pressing buttons for the win!']

Brian Cronin: I dig how "pure energy force" looks just like fire extinguisher fluid.

Eileen Gonzalez: But it's fire extinguishing fluid from the 40TH CENTURY. And Rick saves the day by... pushing random buttons.

Brian Cronin: Just like Cap taught him! Sadly, also better than Wasp could do when she got into Kang's armor

Eileen Gonzalez: You really see that Cap training in every panel Rick is in.

Brian Cronin: "These futuristic circuits are too much for me!"

Really, Wasp, like you'd be able to handle it if it was modern circuitry?

Eileen Gonzalez: Wasp did a great job handing Giant Man that gun, though! (With some help from the ants.)

Brian Cronin: Kirby and Ayers' war comic training came in handy with the panel showing Giant-Man firing.

He looked badass.

Eileen Gonzalez: He absolutely does.

Brian Cronin: It's strange that the cloud of "eating away all fabric and armor" only affects Kang, no?

They're standing right next to him.

Eileen Gonzalez: It's an extremely focused gun. Just like the bomb that Kang unleashes right after that will only harm those who oppose him.

Brian Cronin: Kang didn't read his history books, though, when he thought he'd frighten them with RADIOACTIVITY.

Dude, that's the power source of half the Marvel Universe! However, what's that, did Thor's hammer just save the day once again and make the other Avengers just useless?

Yep, seems to be that is exactly what happened yet again.

Eileen Gonzalez: You'd think, being a time traveler, that Kang would just learn from his mistakes here and then come back and try again, doing everything differently this time. And yet.

Brian Cronin: Yeah, time travel never makes sense. Like years later, when they reveal that Kang went back in time and brainwashed Tony Stark in the past.

So that he could...still lose a bunch of times?

Eileen Gonzalez: It's science! They don't have to explain! And they don't!

Brian Cronin: I like the final pose panel.