WARNING: This article contains massive spoilers for Avengers: Infinity War, in theaters now.
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Earlier this week, at a special event sponsored by the Smithsonian Associates, the educational programming branch of the Smithsonian Institute in Washington, DC, Joe and Anthony Russo took center stage. There, the pair formally signed over the Captain America shield used in 2016's Captain America: Civil War along with their directors' chairs from helming four separate films within the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Following signing over the items to be displayed at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History, the Russos spoke about their most recent release, the record-breaking Avengers: Infinity War, in a conversation moderated by NPR pop culture blogger Linda Holmes before a live audience at George Washington University's Lisner Auditorium.
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Fresh off the international press tour for the Avengers sequel, the brothers started the discussion by observing that they had begun production on Infinity War in January of 2017 and wrapped principal photography on Avengers 4 this past January. This means the pair have been working nonstop in the MCU for a year, with another year of post-production ahead of them for the 2019 follow-up.
Anthony Russo noted that he and his brother are natural deconstructionists, which has been a recurring element across all of their MCU films. 2014's Captain America: The Winter Soldier was about deconstructing S.H.I.E.L.D. and what it means to be Captain America in the morally nebulous 21st century. Civil War was about deconstructing the Avengers, with the acrimonious, irreconcilable split between Captain American and Iron Man at the heart of the conflict. Infinity War deconstructs what it means to be a hero in a world where it's difficult to make heroic decisions, continuing Civil War's theme of division between the heroes.
Joe Russo pointed out that the idea of division carried on to Infinity War's narrative structure by separating the ensemble cast into de facto sub-teams. Given Thor's location at the end of Thor: Ragnarok, and the shift to a more comical tone in his latest solo film, it would make sense that he would be the Avenger to first meet the Guardians of the Galaxy, especially as the two properties share absurdist sensibilities. The teaming of Iron Man and Doctor Strange was made because the Russos saw both heroes as narcissists with opposing backgrounds, Tony Stark being a man of science versus Stephen Strange being the Master of the Mystic Arts. This led to friction between the two, which the brothers felt made for more interesting storytelling.
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Asked why no references were made in the film of two modern Sherlock Holmes teaming up (Robert Downey, Jr. having played the character in Guy Ritchie's 2009 revamp Sherlock Holmes and its 2011 sequel while Benedict Cumberbatch plays a 21st incarnation of the character on the popular BBC series Sherlock), Joe dismissed any nods or jokes to the character connection as being "too obvious."
The idea of divided heroes also meant that the cost of lost unity is Thanos ultimately emerging triumphant. Anthony pointed out that at no point during the film do all of the heroes work together to take on the Mad Titan at once. Joe remarked that they deliberately put Thor on the traditional hero's journey with his emotional motivations from the film's prologue to forging a weapon capable of killing Thanos, leading to the God of Thunder's timely arrival in the climax was as a misdirect that he would be the one to stop Thanos' plot from coming to fruition. The brothers believe it is actually Thanos himself that goes on the true hero's journey, which is why the story is largely told through his perspective while exposing his emotional and psychological vulnerabilities to make him more of a rounded character than stock antagonist.
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As the conversation shifted to Thanos, the topic of the film's shocking ending that sees the villain succeed in using the Infinity Gauntlet to wipe out half of all life in the universe was brought up. The filmmakers felt it was important for the audience to see the immediate consequences of Thanos' victory unfold on screen rather than just cut to black after the antagonist snapped his fingers. It was equally important to show how the surviving heroes would react as their comrades and friends perished around them.
As Spider-Man's death was deemed the most emotional, his demise was saved for last, Joe said, musing that Spider-Man was his favorite superhero growing up. Clarifying on earlier reports that actor Tom Holland improvised his character's death scene, the Russos revealed that his dying apology to Tony Stark was always scripted, but the brothers suggested that the actor improvise more with Robert Downey, Jr. to make the death seem like more than a plot device. This led to Holland developing the line, "I don't want to go" as he dies in his father figure's arms.
To close out the event, Holmes fielded questions for the Russos from the audience, starting with a Hulk fan who expressed disappointment that Bruce Banner's alter ego only appears in the film's prologue. Joe noted that Banner turning into the Hulk at the last minute and saving the day had become fairly predictable by movie audiences and wanted to subvert that expectation on its head. Audiences would anticipate the Hulk bursting out of the Hulkbuster armor in the film's climax to help turn the tide, so the filmmakers sought to empower Bruce Banner, forcing the character to be a more active participant rather than relying on the Hulk to save him once again. The brothers then confirmed that clips of the Hulk in Wakanda seen in trailers and promos leading up to the film were an intentional misdirect to keep audiences guessing.
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Asked if the Russos had seen the clip of Hulk actor Mark Ruffalo accidentally spoil the ending of Infinity War while promoting Thor: Ragnarok, Joe noted that he saw it when it first happened, as well as Ruffalo accidentally livestreaming the Ragnarok premiere from his phone -- which is why the actor doesn't get full scripts.
As for whether the pair has any interest in directing a DC Comics property, given that studio's darker sensibilities in contrast to Marvel Studios, the brothers pointed out that they grew up as bigger fans of Marvel Comics. They feel the DC characters aren't as relatable, and have power sets too similar to each other. Joe admitted he finds Batman among the most interesting DC properties due to the character's humanity and fallibility. This led to them explaining that one of the big reasons they had Vision injured so early in Infinity War was to impede the Marvel hero's impressive array of powers and make him more vulnerable, rather than able to simply fly away or go intangible.
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As the evening came to a close, the brothers remained coy about the whereabouts of Ragnarok character Korg and if there will be a time jump between Infinity War and Avengers 4. Before leaving and thanking the audience for contributing to their film's record-breaking box office, the Russos expressed hw much Marvel Studios values creativity over safe business decisions, which is why they've made it their home since first being hired to direct Winter Soldier in 2012. Asked if they got truly got the nod to helm the Captain America sequel because of the paintball episode of Community as widely rumored, they admitted that while Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige cited the episode in their initial meeting with him, the truth is that they worked on a pitch for the film for four months to get the job.
Directed by Joe and Anthony Russo, Marvel Studios’ Avengers: Infinity War stars Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Jeremy Renner, Scarlett Johansson, Paul Bettany, Anthony Mackie, Paul Rudd, Elizabeth Olsen, Tom Holland, Benedict Cumberbatch, Chadwick Boseman, Chris Pratt, Zoe Saldana, Dave Bautista, Bradley Cooper, Vin Diesel, Tom Hiddleston and Josh Brolin, among others. The film is out in theaters everywhere.