This is "From a Different Point of View," a feature where I discuss a comic book series with another writer. In this case, it is CBR's own Eileen Gonzalez who will be going over the history of the Avengers with me, story by story!

We continue with Avengers #36, "The Ultroids Attack!" by Don Heck and Roy Thomas.

Brian Cronin: As we noted last time, this is probably the first issue where Roy Thomas had some real say over the story.

Brian Cronin: What's interesting is that while it isn't a particularly good story, Thomas' influence appears clear in that it is the issue with probably the least amount of dead weight in a long time.

Brian Cronin: Everything serves the story, which is something we haven't seen since, I guess, Kirby's tenure on the book.

Brian Cronin: Perhaps the second part of the Kang story in the future (also known as perhaps the best issue in the whole Heck/Lee run)?

Eileen Gonzalez: That's a good point! This does feel like a lot of the stories we've been getting recently, i.e. it's really pretty silly, but it does seem to be better put together than the others.

Brian Cronin: Thomas is still obviously quite new at this stuff.

Brian Cronin: So he improves quickly, but yeah, it's a pretty silly start.

Brian Cronin: But hey, I could be wrong and Heck could still be doing the lion's share here of the plotting.

Brian Cronin: It's certainly more in keeping with Heck's recent issues than with Thomas' later issues.

Brian Cronin: Just with less tangential filler pages

Brian Cronin: Perhaps Heck was still driving the plot, but Thomas was giving him more detailed scenes to fit into Heck's silly plot?

Brian Cronin: While Lee stopped giving scenes many moons ago.

Eileen Gonzalez: I would imagine that Thomas, as a newcomer to the book, would have depended at least a little on Heck while he learned the ropes.

Brian Cronin: He had been scripting for about eight months at this point.

Brian Cronin: So you could be right.

Brian Cronin: He started with Nick Fury, then was given X-Men and this became his third ongoing series.

Eileen Gonzalez: That's what I call throwing someone into the deep end!

Brian Cronin: It sort of sounds like Stan was giving him the books with the biggest casts!

Brian Cronin: Giving Stan the books with less character to remember, perhaps?

Eileen Gonzalez: Ha! It must have been difficult trying to juggle such huge casts, with all their foibles and personalities, right off the bat.

Eileen Gonzalez: Especially since the Avengers cast just got bigger again, with a bunch of old friends returning this issue.

Brian Cronin: Right, as the cliffhanger from last issue was resolved, with the mysterious person being...the Scarlet Witch!

Brian Cronin: And her apparently three inch waist!

Brian Cronin: Never stop being you, Heck.

Brian Cronin: I imagine someone quizzing Heck on women's measurements, "Well, you got 36 on the top, then 5 in the middle, then 36 on the bottom."

Eileen Gonzalez: Heck's sense of proportion seems to have dwindled lately.

Eileen Gonzalez: All the women look especially, uh, svelte today.

Brian Cronin: There is a real possibility that his inkers were fixing it and now that he's inking himself, it obviously doesn't get fixed.

Eileen Gonzalez: Ooh, good point.

Brian Cronin: Why I think Thomas had more say over this issue's plot is because it is tied in to one of his then-recent X-Men issues.

Eileen Gonzalez: Thanks for the cross-promotional opportunities, Wanda and Pietro!

Eileen Gonzalez: I like Wanda and Pietro's color-coded civvies in the flashback. In case you forgot who they were.

Brian Cronin: Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver turned down an offer to join the X-Men then, so it's interesting when they need help, they don't think of the X-Men first.

Brian Cronin: I guess they viewed their sabbatical as over.

Brian Cronin: And they were still Avengers.

Brian Cronin: So my question was answered for me. I'm dumb.

Brian Cronin: I like that Thomas explained where they got the money to pay for their powers being restored.

Brian Cronin: It was pro bono due to the town, you know, trying to kill them years earlier.

Eileen Gonzalez: Heaven forbid we think the Avengers are moochers. Though to be fair, if someone tried to kill me, the least they could do is foot the hotel bill.

Brian Cronin: I adore the line, "A flying saucer...such as many people have seen in the United States!"

Brian Cronin: Like...huh?

Brian Cronin: Who is that line even intended for?

Brian Cronin: "This might seem silly, but people have seen these thing!"

Brian Cronin: Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were transported into the future by a flying stone. I think their level of surprise is set a lot higher than "flying saucer."

Eileen Gonzalez: Even more silly is Quicksilver expecting Wanda to stay behind while he investigates. She's an Avenger, you knucklehead! Let her avenge stuff!

Brian Cronin: He's just doing the standard Avengers game plan,.

Brian Cronin: One member goes off on their own and gets captured, so that the others has to rescue him/her.

Brian Cronin: It's TRADITION, Eileen!

Eileen Gonzalez: And he's so devoted to tradition that he allows himself to be captured, even though you'd think he'd have time to escape if he had bothered to run instead of spouting directions to Wanda about going for the Avengers.

Eileen Gonzalez: TRADITION!

Brian Cronin: We see a new approach to Scarlet Witch's powers.

Brian Cronin: Thomas is the first writer to come up with the concept of "hex bolts," I believe.

Brian Cronin: Where her power can work as a sort of energy blast.

Brian Cronin: Because, as always, no one really knows how her powers work.

Brian Cronin: So "hex bolts" are a nice shorthand use of her power.

Eileen Gonzalez: I guess it's easier to figure out what to do with "energy bolts" than "bad luck bolts." And now they have the convenient excuse that Wanda's powers were just rebooted, so it makes sense (ish) that they'd come back a little different.

Brian Cronin: When Wanda says that she used her Avengers priority to obtain an intercontinental jet, what do you think that means?

Brian Cronin: That she got a jet to fly her home?

Brian Cronin: Or that she just flew a jet herself?

Eileen Gonzalez: Hm, good question. Maybe she obtained jet-flying powers when we weren't looking as well.

Eileen Gonzalez: Though it certainly seems like all the Avengers just know how to fly a plane.

Brian Cronin: I like the idea of some country just saying, "Okay, Wasp, I'm sure you can fly one of our jets. Here ya go!"

Brian Cronin: "You can't remember a four digit code, Hawkeye, but sure, here's a jet!"

Eileen Gonzalez: I'm sure Wasp would be able to fly a plane better if she knew more about electronics. You know, like a man.

Brian Cronin: When you think about it, that might have been the last line Stan ever wrote for the Wasp.

Brian Cronin: So he left off with quite the doozy

Eileen Gonzalez: Eep.

Eileen Gonzalez: So far Wanda's dialogue has been better than that, at least.

Brian Cronin: I'm now curious. Let me check.

Brian Cronin: Aha, he writes her again in Captain America #116, when the Red Skull swaps bodies with Cap and then sends the Avengers after the "Skull."

Brian Cronin: She is not thrilled with having to hunt down the Skull, telling her teammates, "I don't know about YOU gents, but I'd rather be watching Julia."

Brian Cronin: Let me take this moment to pay my respects to Diahann Carroll, star of Julia, the first primetime series starring a black woman, who passed away earlier this month.

Brian Cronin: Julia would have been a new series at the time of that topical Lee line in Captain America #116.

Eileen Gonzalez: Not only is that line accurate (who WOULDN'T rather watch Julia than fight your friend in a Nazi's body?), it is also better than the electronics line.

Brian Cronin: Yay, Stan! Learning from his past mistakes!

Brian Cronin: I like when Hawkeye brings in Black Widow and suggests that she join the team.

Brian Cronin: Cap says, "That's not for US to decide."

Brian Cronin: I mean, it's technically true, I guess, since they need the other members to vote.

Brian Cronin: But it seems weird, "WE can't decide. You'll need the Avengers for that!"

Eileen Gonzalez: It's also funny how Hank is dead set against letting Black Widow in because she's a criminal. And he was perfectly fine with letting Hawkeye in despite HIS record! Did we meet our quota of criminals this decade?

Brian Cronin: That's Hank's point, though, right?

Brian Cronin: It's bad enough they already let three supervillains join.

Brian Cronin: (Four if you count Swordsman's membership as legit)

Brian Cronin: (Five if you count Wonder Man as a villain)

Brian Cronin: Now they want to add ANOTHER one!

Brian Cronin: The Avengers really ARE becoming the home for reformed supervillains!

Brian Cronin: That doesn't mean that Hank's point is a good one, of course.

Brian Cronin: Especially since Black Widow was being mind-controlled during the incident he is complaining about.

Eileen Gonzalez: It just seems a bit hypocritical at this point. If he wanted to complain about all the crooks joining the team, he probably should have done it before wandering off for a vacation and letting THREE ex-criminals take his place as Avengers.

Brian Cronin: Oh totally, he's being a dick.

Brian Cronin: Just noting that it is true that the team is collecting an inordinate amount of former supervillains.

Brian Cronin: I like that Thomas is keeping Hawkeye's character growth

Brian Cronin: By not having him bicker with Cap.

Brian Cronin: But keeping that old school Hawkeye bickering by having Hawkeye and GOLIATH fight now.

Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, now that Hawkeye and Cap are getting along, I guess Hawkeye has to take out his aggression on someone.

Brian Cronin: And mostly from GOLIATH being the jerk.

Brian Cronin: So that also keeps Hawkeye's character growth intact.

Eileen Gonzalez: And then Wanda calls them out on it, and rightly so.

Eileen Gonzalez: I bet she's wishing she rejoined the X-Men right now.

Brian Cronin: Who do you think is the Avenger basically saying they'll kill the bad guys if they have killed Quicksilver?

Brian Cronin: "How the Avengers earned their name...in spades."

Brian Cronin: It could sadly be any number of them, right?

Brian Cronin: Heck doing his shortcut trick again of just showing the plane while dialogue takes place so he doesn't have to draw everyone

Eileen Gonzalez: I can see anyone except maybe Jan saying that line. My guess would be Wanda just because he's her brother, but honestly, it's impossible to tell.

Brian Cronin: Which is ironic, since Jan is the one who coined the name!

Eileen Gonzalez: And the others have taken it way too seriously ever since.

Brian Cronin: Yeah, since the context was clearly her just thinking of cool-sounding names.

Brian Cronin: Thank goodness Wanda has an actual new power to alert them to the force field.

Brian Cronin: I was afraid it was going to be chalked up to women's intuition!

Brian Cronin: She's way too happy about her brand-new power, though, right? Shouldn't she be at least a LITTLE weirded out by gaining some random new power?

Eileen Gonzalez: She's probably seen weirder things. Like that American-style flying saucer, now THAT was weird.

Eileen Gonzalez: I think this is the first time the Avengers have had an even number of men and women on the team? Even if Black Widow isn't officially a member, she's still helping out.

Brian Cronin: Good point!

Brian Cronin: I don't think they had a true 50/50 male female split for....uhmm....

Brian Cronin: huh

Brian Cronin: Uhmmm....did they briefly have one when She-Hulk, Wasp and Captain Marvel were on the team with Cap, Thor and Starfox?

Brian Cronin: Does that sound right?

Eileen Gonzalez: Hm, probably. My memory of the '70s is a little fuzzy, but I think for a long time there were two female members at best.

Eileen Gonzalez: Wanda even got excited when Mantis (I think it was Mantis) joined because she wouldn't be the lone woman anymore.

Brian Cronin: Even that instance I'm referring to was when Hawkeye was out of action with a broken leg.

Brian Cronin: But he was still technically on the team.

Brian Cronin: But not REALLY.

Brian Cronin: So I think that lineup counts.

Brian Cronin: But yeah, they've certainly not been big on male/female splits over the years.

Brian Cronin: Okay, the team quickly discovers the futuristic headquarters of the villains.

Brian Cronin: What does Hawkeye's line about "And not even lose one crummy foul ball" mean in the context of how Shea Stadium could fit in there?

Eileen Gonzalez: Knowing nothing about baseball, I assume foul balls tend to go outside the parameters of a baseball field, and this place is large enough that even stuff just outside the field would fit? I honestly don't know.

Eileen Gonzalez: I do like the fact that the reveal gets a splash page, emphasizing how huge and imposing it is.

Brian Cronin: Yeah, it's a great job by Heck.

Brian Cronin: And then (after Hawkeye, of course, first suggested just blowing up whatever they find there), we get the major twist.

Brian Cronin: Which I gotta give Thomas and Heck credit for, it's a heck of a twist.

Brian Cronin: That "Wanda" was an android the whole time. So maybe Quicksilver WASN'T a dummy and DIDN'T run into the trap by himself! And maybe that "UFOs, like they have in America" line never actually happened and it was quite possibly a very clever clue by Thomas that her story was BS!

Eileen Gonzalez: Agreed. This twist was set up very well, too, with just enough groundwork laid out that something didn't seem quite right (e.g. Wanda's new powers) but not that you'd necessarily guess what's going on until the reveal.

Eileen Gonzalez: And now we see the beginning of Roy Thomas' fondness for giving androids names that start with "ult"

Brian Cronin: Yeah, this simply HAD to be in the back of his mind when he created Ultron.

Brian Cronin: And it certainly is fascinating that his first real issue on the series involves androids.

Brian Cronin: As we noted earlier, the Avengers really seem to love any opportunity to kill, right?

Brian Cronin: Hawkeye and Goliath should get along better, as they're both quite bloodthirsty.

Eileen Gonzalez: Well this time they're just fighting androids. Killing them doesn't count, right?

Eileen Gonzalez: At least their being so vicious results in a nice fight scene. Love Goliath ripping up the floor!

Brian Cronin: Yeah, this was a great issue for action.

Brian Cronin: The lack of superfluous stuff gives them more room for awesome action scenes.

Brian Cronin: As this stuff doesn't need to be rushed.

Brian Cronin: Thomas subverts expectations when Wasp's go-to move of freeing other Avengers backfires, as the controls are booby trapped!

Eileen Gonzalez: Which leaves things up to Hawkeye. That'll end well.

Brian Cronin: Thomas subverts expectations well there, as well, as he makes it seem like it's all down to Hawkeye when it isn't

Brian Cronin: As Black Widow ends up being the key.

Brian Cronin: Although, it doesn't really track that they didn't attack her because they weren't prepared for her, but they didn't seem to know who Hawkeye was earlier and they attacked him fine, right?

Brian Cronin: I love the bit where she tries to trick the guard and its circuits warn him that its a trick.

Brian Cronin: It reminds me of the classic Nextwave line with Machine Man saying, "My robot brain needs beer."

Brian Cronin: "My circuits are saying this is a trick."

Brian Cronin: Cap smiles a TON in this comic, right?

Brian Cronin: When Black Widow comes across Cap, that dude is BEAMING.

Eileen Gonzalez: He's happy Hawkeye is arguing with Goliath all the time instead of him.

Brian Cronin: The design of the Ultroids is quite weak, no?

Brian Cronin: I mean, at least they're not dressed like Pancho Villa.

Brian Cronin: But that's damning with very faint praise!

Eileen Gonzalez: Definitely not Heck's finest work on villain design. And I have to wonder about Ixar's plan as well. He wants to absorb the Avengers' powers and give them to his Ultroids, but neither Hawkeye nor Cap (nor Black Widow) have actual powers! Wouldn't it have been better to capture the X-Men instead?

Brian Cronin: The X-Men should fire THEIR press agents.

Brian Cronin: As the androids don't seem to know the X-Men.

Brian Cronin: The Avengers ARE a lot more famous, ya know?

Brian Cronin: I love the artsy silhouette panel by Heck that was clearly just intended for him to save time.

Brian Cronin: I was reading about Vince Colletta and how he would sometimes turn characters into silhouettes to save time and Heck is all on board with that, as well.

Brian Cronin: The cliffhanger is funny, with Ixar getting a whole speech in there while Cap is knocked out.

Eileen Gonzalez: Ha, yeah. Maybe he doesn't understand how humans work well enough to realize Cap can't listen anymore

Brian Cronin: All in all, definitely an improvement over last issue. It's a slight, but fun enough action issue.

Brian Cronin: And the android twist was a good one.

Brian Cronin: The Thomas era is heading in the right direction!

Eileen Gonzalez: Yeah, there's a small but noticeable shift in storytelling here, and I like it. I can't wait to see where the series goes from here!