In recent years, Moon Knight has become something of a prestige title for Marvel, with high-profile creative teams including Warren Ellis & Declan Shalvey, Brian Michael Bendis & Alex Maleev and most recently Jeff Lemire & Greg Smallwood all adding to the legacy of the vigilante.

With Marvel's post-Secret Empire "Marvel Legacy" publishing initiative nearly here, CBR has the exclusive first word on what's in store for Marc Spector -- a new series sporting a surprisingly high number, plus a new creative team. November brings Moon Knight #188, which like many Marvel Legacy series, combines the numbering of multiple past volumes. The new team on the book is writer Max Bemis, the lead singer of the band Say Anything who's already made an impact at Marvel with X-Men: Worst X-Man Ever and Foolkiller, and artist Jacen Burrows, best known for his horror work including co-creating Crossed with Garth Ennis and illustrating the Alan Moore-written Providence.

CBR has the first look at Burrows' cover for Moon Knight #188, along with the solicitation text for #188 and #189 -- the start of the "Crazy Runs in the Family" arc -- and an in-depth interview with Bemis on his "very weird" plans for the series. In our talk, Bemis discusses the imminent introduction of the "ultimate nemesis" for Moon Knight -- the Joker to his Batman -- how insight from his own history with mental illness helps him approach the title character, and adding elements of dark comedy to the character's frequently grim adventures.


MOON KNIGHT #188 & 189

  • MAX BEMIS (W) • JACEN BURROWS (A/C)
  • CRAZY RUNS IN THE FAMILY Parts 1 & 2
  • A new day is dawning and with it comes an enemy unlike any that Marc Spector, Moon Knight, has ever faced. Moon Knight has always been a protector from the shadows, but this new enemy is looking to extinguish that shadow with blinding light and fire. Get ready for the introduction of Moon Knight’s greatest nemesis!

CBR: Max, definitely interested to hear what you and Jacen Burrows have planned for the book. Let's start with your own history with Moon Knight as a character -- were you a Moon Knight fan coming into this?

Max Bemis: Yes, I was, very much so. It's funny -- I had not, until I started realizing I was going to write this book, read the classic Moon Knight books. I started reading when it was Charlie Huston and David Finch on the first couple arcs. I really loved it. It was so dark and just messed up, and had a supernatural bent -- all stuff that I like. Weird and mystical, but not pretentious.

I think the modern takes on Moon Knight have been really amazing. Warren Ellis and that whole run; Lemire. I think people feel like the title is an invitation to explore the human psyche and get weird with storytelling, and readers can expect that in a Moon Knight book and it doesn't feel like a jolting thing.

I do think it's an original take that I'm doing, but I'm just honored to follow in a line of people that inspired me to make it a book with a lot of ambition.

Given everything you just said about all the great writers who have been on the character in the past decade or so, what kind of pressure does that bring to you? What are you looking to do that you haven't seen in recent years with the character?

There is some pressure, but it's mostly a positive feeling of pressure. I do care what people think of it -- I'm not the kind of person who makes art without any regard for what people think of it. I've always been honest about that. Let's say you're a Moon Knight fan for years, and you're expecting the caliber of stories you've been getting from those writers, you want to at least have it be as good. I'm going to try to make it better, just for fun -- which I probably won't be able to do.

In terms of what hasn't been done -- there's definitely been some weirdness and dark stuff. When Bendis did it, it was very Bendis-y, and amazing. Then Warren Ellis did it very "Warren Ellis;" sort of grim and weird and mystical. I feel like I take this as an opportunity very seriously. I've done some stuff with Marvel, and it's been really fun, and people have been really nice about those books, but it's my first time working on a big ongoing. I feel like the last few writers who tackled it, these were already established writers: Brian Wood, Warren Ellis. As much as they probably put their heart and soul into it, it's never going to be, "Oh my god, it's your first big book." For me, I want it to be remembered as something great, hopefully. This is the best it could ever get, possibly, so I'm not going to half-ass it in any way.

In terms of the tone of the book, I think if people are a fan of dark, Coen brothers-type comedy, there's going to be some of that. It's going to be trippy -- some Grant Morrison-esque stuff in there. There's going to be a lot of Moon Knight hitting people and fun action sequences, but people can expect it to be more along the lines of the weirder Marvel stuff.

I think Moon Knight has generally taken himself pretty seriously in a lot of the Moon Knight books. He's a lunatic, and I suffer from mental illness. I don't think it has to be such a stoic persona. I don't want to change his personality, but I think the fact that he's kind of unhinged allows him to be an interesting character, who isn't just this stoic, Batman-type guy who hurts people worse than Batman. I think the very concept of it is really amazing, and I want to try to tap into the cosmic craziness and fun and humor or something so dark and weird as mental illness, as opposed to just, "Oh my god, this is scary, this is weird." I want it to be surreal and funny.

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Creating the "Ultimate Nemesis" for Moon Knight, and Embracing Dark Comedy

Those are some interesting words to use, especially "dark comedy." That's not surprising knowing your work, but it is a little surprising knowing Moon Knight, which is usually a rather serious book. How much are you looking to lean into some more comedic aspects?

Definitely less than anything I've done at Marvel. Anyone who's read my stuff outside of Marvel knows that I don't just do funny -- or trying to be funny, whatever it is -- books. It just so happens that Worst X-Men Ever and Foolkiller are pretty much comedies to some degree. I wouldn't call Moon Knight a comedy, at all, but I would compare it to something like Fargo, or a David Lynch-esque thing, where there are those moments in there that make you laugh, even though you're caught up in the ride.

The first issue itself is very weird, and not something you would expect from Moon Knight, but there are moments that are almost whimsical, and sort of anarchic comedy -- it's not goofy comedy, it's kind of the sickest, darkest stuff you can think of. His problems are very serious problems, but I do believe the best humor comes from the most horrible things in the world -- some of it at least. [Laughs] I feel like his situation's pretty horrible, and therefore it has to be funny at times, perversely.

Let's dig more into tone, specifically about working with Jacen Burrows. A lot of the work people know from him is in the straight-up horror genre, but clearly that's not what he's doing here. What can you share about working with him and his approach to the book, visually?

He has been one of my favorite artists for years and years, I've been following him ever since his early stuff at Avatar. He happens to have worked on a lot of horror stuff, but he reminds me of artists like Steve Dillon, and it's not a coincidence that he's worked with Garth [Ennis] so much. It's the genius level of character detail, and the way he's able to convey personal moments, and have it be eerie. That's what I love that Alan Moore Providence book, because of the art -- it was so scary, because of this menacing gravitas of the art.

He does a lot of action stuff, it's just that he's never done a superhero specifically. But I wanted to relish and cherish the chance that I got to work with him by making it the best thing I've ever done, and not a traditional superhero book. I think he enjoys drawing stuff like this, where you do get to see Moon Knight kick some ass.

Where is Moon Knight himself when the series begins? The last time we saw him, at the end of Jeff Lemire's run, he was in a relatively peaceful place (as far as Moon Knight goes).

I think for a long time Moon Knight has been about a man grappling with the fact that he has a mental illness. The cool thing Jeff did is, he resolved that arc, for now at least. He basically left him OK with who he was, at least in terms of his split personality. I think there are many more interesting stories that come after the grappling with your demons -- you may figure out what's going on and how to live, but then you've got your entire life ahead of you and all the challenges. It's no longer, "Oh, I hate myself because I'm crazy! Who am I? Who is Konshu?" It's, "OK, I'm a crazy man, and I may or may not be an emissary of a moon god, it may all be in my head, but I kind of don't care, and now I have to keep trying to make the world a better place and live a life."

The first story we're telling, I'm hoping to create the ultimate nemesis for Moon Knight. I know he has one a little bit, but I still feel, like when we were talking about it initially, if he's Batman, he doesn't really have a Joker -- yet. What I'm doing is, rather than focusing on his inner struggles so much, this is about him coming up against really intense, life-changing scenarios, and the main one being facing the ultimate bad guy who's his polar opposite in pretty much every way (without giving away too much). We're just going to put him through the wringer a little bit, but it's not going to be one of those depressing, "Let's just have Moon Knight to complain the entire time." I want him to now move on to his next phase of his existence.

One of the cool things that Jeff left open is, it's vague whether his whole thing is in fact mystical or is just a figment of his imagination. My whole idea for this run on this character was to say, "It doesn't have to be one or the other." There's something mystical and magical about craziness, and that's a whole other realm of dreams and weird ideas and that's where a lot of my spirituality and my weird, esoteric views come from. As someone who suffers from breaks from reality myself, I feel like we can tell weird, mystical stories -- or it's just a guy who's seeing things who aren't there. And it's the same thing. There's no difference.

That's kind of the concept: He is crazy, but it is real. And they're both true. So how does that work out?

What more can you say about the new villain character at this point?

There's not much I can say, but I will say that it ties into the mythology of everything. The one thing I will say is, there's a sociopolitical and mystical moral to the story, and it's kind of the same moral I put in a lot of my work, which is the struggle between good and evil as constructs. What Alan Moore writes about, what Grant Morrison writes about -- chaos versus order. I feel like Moon Knight, as a sort of unhinged person who also is an avatar of the moon, is an avatar of zaniness and creativity as a character, as a superhero. What he's going to come up against is kind of what we're all facing right now in society -- complete sterilization and conformity, and all of these things that are oppressing us all as people in this world. It's just going to be an iconographic translation of this struggle that I think most people are going through if you're a sane person in America right now. "How can I even be an individual when these things are being taken from me?"

Moon Knight is there to fight for that, because he's weirdo. He's like the weirdo superhero. He's a freak. Basically, what he's coming up against is the opposite of being a kooky, weird, ultimately good person.

Your run on Moon Knight is part of the impending Marvel Legacy publishing initiative, which embraces Marvel's roots, and a big part of that history is guest stars and team-ups. Moon Knight, as a character, is often sort of doing his own thing, but do you have plans for other Marvel characters to get involved?

I got into this for the passion entirely. Still, it boggles my mind. I don't even really pay attention to what I get paid for writing comic books. I know that's the privilege of someone who has another avenue as a musician, but at the same time, it's my dream job. I don't take it any less seriously than music.

If it were up to me, I would write Moon Knight for like a hundred issues, because it's the perfect book for me. Even if I get to do other stuff at Marvel, I've always wanted to write a long ongoing book at Marvel -- which mostly doesn't happen. That happens to like Brian Bendis and a few other people. But if I get to tell a long Moon Knight story outside of this first arc, I would love to involve him with the rest of the Marvel Universe on his own terms, as long as it isn't exploitive and just trying to get sales from putting the Hulk in there. As long as it fits the tone -- I always loved in the Vertigo books in the '90s when they would bring in like, Superman in the background for one issue. So it would be stuff like that if it does happen.

On the topic of Marvel Legacy, what are your thoughts on this series being a part of that push? Down to the renumbering, with your run starting at #188 due to the cumulative total of several runs -- which is a much higher number than Moon Knight has seen before.

I'm honored! I didn't know when I signed on for this that that was even happening. It was revealed to me over the course of writing it. Obviously, that's amazing. I'm really honored. I can say that [Editor-in-Chief] Axel [Alonso] at Marvel has given me a lot of support by including me in it, and by giving me this book at all. For anyone who doesn't realize it, that dude literally has helped edit these first few issues, completely. I don't mean send in a couple notes; he's been on the phone with me editing this book.

All I know is that Marvel has been amazing, and to be able to part of something that's a big stakes thing for them is obviously an honor. I started writing this book before I knew it was part of any kind of relaunch, and I probably would have seen it as a complete relaunch of the character anyway; in terms of how I like to approach characters, and how I wanted to approach this book. So it wasn't like I've suddenly been milking this idea of a sales-pushing type thing -- but I do think that works for me as a reader. New beginnings always draw me in. It's really convenient that it happens to line up with this thing they're doing that is a new start all around.

It's still a couple months away, but is there anything else people should know right now about Moon Knight?

If anyone is looking for one of those new, very weird Marvel books, this will be the one to read. That's what I like -- when Grant Morrison wrote Batman, that was one of my favorite runs. It was so weird and nontraditional. There's always several of those books going on at the major publishers at any given time, and this will be one of them. [Laughs]

Moon Knight #188 is scheduled for release in November.